Chrissie Hynde said that victims of assault have to take responsibility

[Gymbunny1204]

She's been interviewed by the Sunday Times.

Wearing short skirt, high heels, drunk - implies your fault if raped. Dressed like that you need to be able to run. She says.

She was assaulted at age 21. Says her fault she went with the men.

I hate her for making me think for a split second it was my fault I was abused as a child for running to the loo in just a top which did cover my bottom, I had no pants on. In front of the abuser.

Piece in the daily mail about her interview.

I suspect she has a record to promote.

Very well said, Basil. Thank you.

Faded celeb with book to flog says controversial / outrageous / provocative stuff.

Media desperate to fill space /airtime over bank holiday weekend bites enthusiastically.

PR job done. Everybody happy.

People really do believe this stuff though, Bonnie.

I see it as a bit like walking into Celtic Park wearing a Rangers strip
What a shit comment on all levels. However taking it literally- if a Rangers fan goes into Celtic Park they won't get beaten up. Celtic fans are not animals you know. A better analogy would be if a Rangers fan went into a Celtic pub and started singing 'The Sash' and yelled, 'F* The Pope' or some such. He might get beaten up.
However if a woman walks into a bar full of men wearing sexy clothes it doesn't justify rape- nothing does.

If only it was that simple Bonnie. As AF says, people believe it. You only need to look at any website that has reported what CH said and then read the comments underneath. I can't put into words how furious it makes me that people believe this and worse, that they leap on comments such as CHs and use them as evidence that they were right all along, women do ask for it.

Yonic oh dear :( She's about a low as it's possible to go in my estimation then.

So, is Matthew Wright saying if he found a woman drunk and unconscious in a carpark he'd have sex with her without her consent?

If not, is that because he, like most men is not a rapist? In which case there is no excuse for rapists. Or is he saying he is a rapist?

It's that simple.

I'm disappointed that this victim blaming shit still gets spouted, this time by someone I previously admired. to op and other survivors. It was not your fault and I believe you.

small that was kind of the point I wanted to make... I knew there was bound to be a phone in topic rewarding CH's comments (as they are, very wrong and controversial) so I kind of had what I wanted to say all planned out. Stupid busy phone lines. As I said before shan't be watching tws again and as for Dominic Holland... Wow just wow, still in shock by what he said.

SmallLegs: "If not, is that because he, like most men is not a rapist? In which case there is no excuse for rapists. Or is he saying he is a rapist?"

This is the crux of it. People who make analogies about leaving car doors open or walking around with expensive iPhones or walking into Celtic Park wearing a Rangers strip are conflating two very different things.

We know that there are people who are professional pickpockets, or break into cars for a living, or are football thugs who hate fans of opposing teams, and if you give them the opportunity to attack, they will. It is wise to be cautious - though still not your fault if mugged etc.

But when they talk about women "inviting" rape, they are not saying that women are attracting rapists. They are saying that they are driving ordinary men - men who would not otherwise be criminals - to rape. We know that men who are (for want of a better word) "professional" rapists don't particularly go after women in high heels, miniskirts etc. They tend on the whole to seek out women who are vulnerable.

So if we are to believe that any man can be incited to rape given the provocation of a woman being drunk, miniskirted etc, what this means is that women need to be on their guard at all times. The best thing women can do, in fact, is to stay away from all men, because we have no idea at what point a man is going to be incited to rape. Is this really what people like Matthew Wright and his ilk want us to believe?

OP, I am very sorry you are being subjected to this dangerous and revolting crap. Of course it wasn't your fault. That is just terrible and wrong. Please look after yourself.

hackmum - I agree. The idea that women "invite" rape does indeed suggest that any man is a potential rapist if exposed to the relevant "triggers* (clothing, intoxication, being out on your own, anything you like really...) and I don't understand why men aren't up in arms about this. If someone suggested that, given the opportunity and the right set of cirmcumstances, I would be likely to commit a violent crime against someone, I would be incandescent. But instead, we get a constant stream of accusations against "man-hating feminazis who see all men as potential rapists and abusers" . FFS. It's not feminists who see men that way. It's victim-blamers like Hynde and Wright and the Celtic Park poster.

There's a piece in the mail and several commentators seem to agree with her. Gone right of Janet Street Porter now.

It's not helpful.

A long term friend has recently dropped me because I said I would never assume I can understand how she feels about the abuse she went through other than to say it must have been horrific as she is a different person from me.

Everyone is different so their response is different. Long term friend gone.

I honestly can't believe she said this, and now the "follow-up" article in the Mail. Ugh. But part of me feels bad for her. Women have been taught to blame themselves for rape for as long as there's been women, and she's a victim of that mindset. Perhaps, she'll re-think why she believes it was her fault, or that she brought it on herself, and maybe realize it wasn't her fault.

I'm sorry to hear about your friend, OP. You are of course right, people have different responses to situations. Some people hate being told "I know how you feel" when you couldn't possibly know. Others need to hear it because it makes them feel less alone. I don't know why your friend has dropped you like that, perhaps she just needs time to work on her own strategy for coping with this. Could you write to her, do you think? Oh, and please don't take other people's dismal views to heart. They don't know anything about you.

Discussed on loose women with a lovely poll too

I'm sure you can guess how it went, so heres a helpful link...
stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/tell-us/webflow/broadcast-complaints/

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/01/woman-raped-john-lewis-car-park-cheadle-stockport

Media reports today of a woman who was sitting in her car in a John Lewis car park at 7pm when a man opens her car door, drags her out into the bushes and rapes her.

Just working out how she is supposed to be responsible for her rape or guilty of putting herself in a situation where she could be attacked…….
Sitting in a car by herself? Perhaps she had a skirt on? She dared to be out at 7pm? Parked too far from the shop doors? (Sarcasm alert).

I don't understand how hard it is for many people to grasp the fact that a criminal is 100% responsible for a crime 100% of the time.

How utterly fucking depressing. I find it hard to believe that victim blaming and shaming of women for appearing in public unchaperoned / choosing their own clothes / wearing make up / drinking alcohol / talking to a man is actually still at thing. It seems medieval. And yet I know that a significant minority of people agree with every word.

I feel very sorry for Chrissie Hynde carrying all of that guilt and shame with her for the last 40 years, and I know that this is how she is making sense of what happened to her. But she's just wrong - so very very very wrong - and the thought that what she has said is causing other rape survivors to go back and examine their own behaviour all over again is sickening.

Totally unsurprised by the Wright Stuff and Loose Women and Janet Street Porter stories on here, just sickened and depressed

I can't bear all this, how can people still be thinking this?

I kind of agree with her - you cant say all rape happens under the same circumstance - every time it happens there are particular circumstances around that instance of it.

I think what CH and JSP are saying is that sometimes people put themselves at more risk of someone assaulting them by doing whatever. I don't think anyone is saying woman are asking to be raped at all - ive not read anything like that and ive not taken what they have said to mean that - I think its twisting words.

there will always be a small number of people who are prepared to exploit circumstances where people put themselves at risk be that rape, theft, violence etc. etc.

yes there are particular circs peggy - a bloke forces himself on a woman. The woman has no say in the issue. You appear to be investing in the blame-game on the victim not the predator who commits the act.

'sometimes people put themselves at more risk of someone assaulting them by doing whatever'

So what? Some people keep more valuables in their home than others, some people live in fancier houses than others, making them potentially a more attractive burglary target. Yet no-one ever places any kind of blame on people who experience burglary / theft, and quite rightly too. No-one is ever accused of 'asking' to be burgled. The blame is always placed on the person who chose to commit the crime.

Why should it be any different for rape / sexual assault? Because we live in a rape culture, that's why

Grimble... the difference there is that no one would see the woman in your bloody awful example as being to blame. If that very same woman had been drunk and walking to a bus stop however, then she is. That poor woman, I hope she's getting loads of help and support.

12.15% of people who answered that poll on loose women said women are sometimes to blame for being raped. Those 12.15% show me more than ever how much we still need feminism. Anyone who thinks that women do anything to 'get themselves raped' need to go and give their heads a wobble.

Magical thinking about keeping yourself safe doesn't work. It's simply an adult version of not stepping on the cracks in case the bears get you.

She is a woman who was sexually assaulted by a group of men. It is common for victims of sexual assault and rape to blame themselves. It is a way of denying how vulnerable you are. That is what she is doing.

I'd be more convinced about the value of telling women and girls not to put themselves in risky situations by e.g. getting drunk, walking around alone at night etc. if just as often we heard the same advice given to men and boys, who, statistically are at greater threat of violence. But we don't. Wonder why… (rhetorical question)

Thanks peggy