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Original poster

Chrissie Hynde said that victims of assault have to take responsibility

274 replies

Gymbunny1204 · 30/08/2015 11:53

She's been interviewed by the Sunday Times.

Wearing short skirt, high heels, drunk - implies your fault if raped. Dressed like that you need to be able to run. She says.

She was assaulted at age 21. Says her fault she went with the men.

I hate her for making me think for a split second it was my fault I was abused as a child for running to the loo in just a top which did cover my bottom, I had no pants on. In front of the abuser.

Piece in the daily mail about her interview.

I suspect she has a record to promote.

OP posts:
shoopshoopsong · 30/08/2015 19:04

I hoped she's been misquoted

YonicScrewdriver · 30/08/2015 19:43

Shoop, I it's a very extensive statement im afraid.

Anonynonny · 30/08/2015 20:37

We did a response at the Norman Awards:

Chrissie Hynde = Not Norman

Original poster
Gymbunny1204 · 30/08/2015 20:43

It's really playing on my mind.

Just feel so bad and worse than I have in a long time.

OP posts:
Anonynonny · 30/08/2015 20:55

It's shit that women like this, who are role models and admired, come out with shit like this.

I can understand that she has chosen to blame herself for those men raping her because if it was her fault, then that gives her back the power to have stopped it - it may be easier to live with, if you feel you could have stopped it by your own behaviour, much harder to accept that you didn't have any agency in what happened.

But to throw other women under the bus - to protect your own psyche by telling them they could have prevented their own rapes - that is shit, shit, shit behaviour. It's indefensible from someone in her position, IMO.

MNHQ
IonaMumsnet · 30/08/2015 21:03

Evening all. And OP - we were so sorry to hear about your awful experience and that you are a survivor of abuse yourself Flowers.

Sorry to hijack your thread but we thought this might be an opportune moment to post a link to our We Believe You campaign link for anyone who hadn't heard about it and might find it interesting reading.

suzannefollowmyvan · 30/08/2015 23:05

she has been widely criticised, this has been the subject of a few radio phone ins and all the callers that I heard condemned her

hackmum · 31/08/2015 09:04

It's really sad. I always used to admire Chrissie Hynde - she was always plainspoken, never giggly or girly, never one to go on TOTP half-naked to please men. If you imagine someone like Miley Cyrus, she was the exact opposite. But she always looked fantastic too.

That aside, I don't see how any woman can be said to be "asking" to be raped. The whole point about rape is that it's without consent. So I guess if you are dressed in a way that might be regarded as provocative - mini-skirt, make-up, high heels - you could be giving a signal that you're interested in sex. But if a man approaches you with that in mind, and then you say No, then it's clear that you're not interested, isn't it? So there's no way that you could be said to be "asking" to be raped, any more than you could be said to be "asking" to be mugged, or robbed, or murdered.

suzannefollowmyvan · 31/08/2015 09:15

I agree, you can say that a person was unwise or naive or unlucky to have been in a situation where she was vulnerable.
But 'asking for it' is a phrase used by a predator to justify taking advantage of a situation where someone is vulnerable.
I think it is often said when the feeling is that a person needs to be taught a lesson for dressing in a certain way, as if she has done it to taunt men in a 'you can look but you can't touch' way.

I am surprised that CH said that, but I am encouraged by the change in the discourse on the subject, it seems we have moved on and are more enlightened. ?

Anonynonny · 31/08/2015 09:45

What really annoys me about this debate is how people always talk about "personal responsibility" when what they actually fucking mean, is "women's responsibility for men's behaviour".

Getting drunk leads to bad choices, hangovers, losing things, falling over etc. Sometimes. It only leads to rape, if you happen to meet a rapist. It isn't an inevitable result of drunkenness. Yes you're responsible for getting yourself in such a state that you lost your handbag, but if someone took the handbag off the counter while you were merrily dancing away pretending to be Miley Cyrus, you may be responsible for your lack of care, but you aren't responsible for their choice to take your handbag. Rape is exactly the same - you can only be responsible for your own behaviour, not for that of someone who decides to use your incapable state to commit a violent and/ or criminal offence.

What is wrong with people who can't see that personal responsibility is only for your own actions, not for someone else's? It's actually quite frightening that so many educated, intelligent people buy into the idea that women need to take responsibility for what men do as well as what we do ourselves.

WitchOfAlba · 31/08/2015 09:49

Hmm. I wonder if she was misquoted? There is a world of difference between a woman thinking it was her fault and a woman saying it was the woman's fault if it happened to her. I've not read the interview but if she's saying that a woman has to take responsibility for it then she's an idiot.

suzannefollowmyvan · 31/08/2015 10:01

It's actually quite frightening that so many educated, intelligent people buy into the idea that women need to take responsibility for what men do as well as what we do ourselves
A kind of 'original sin' whereby women are inherently bad and have a corrupting influence on men
Angry

Original poster
Gymbunny1204 · 31/08/2015 11:05

Just to add to the feeling shit a friend has told me I won't get over it without asking God into my life. Maybe it works for others but that isn't me and not helpful. It makes me feel like I'm choosing to not get over it and how the fuck do you get over stuff like this ?

OP posts:
Lemonfizzypop · 31/08/2015 11:13

So sick of the "well you wouldn't leave your house/car unlocked would you", i am not a fucking object to be kept locked away. Perhaps we should all wear chastity belts? Just to be on the safe side.

YonicScrewdriver · 31/08/2015 11:20

Witch, if you read the interview, it's a very extensive quote from her so I don't think it's a misinterpretation.

MrsToddsShortcut · 31/08/2015 11:28

I'm over at my mums this morning and had the great misfortune to watch The Wright Stuff. They were discussing it and apart from the two female panellists (sorry, can't remember their names) the view was that women shouldn't go out and get drunk/put themselves in that position etc etc. and even the women were agreeing about them not drinking/wearing heels.

One of them (Dominic Holland?) suggested that in one previous case where a woman became unconscious through drink and was then carried into a car park and raped while unconscious, should bear 'some' responsibility for getting that drunk in the first place.

And good old Matthew kept banging on about his bloody mobile phone and if he waved it around did he deserve to have it stolen (because rape and theft are apparantly the same). It was incredibly depressing and really really upsetting. I felt angry yesterday and today I just feel really really upset. I very rarely talk about my rape (which as a child, was never investigated, but swept under the carpet as it was a family member) and my sexual assault as an adult, because although I don't blame myself, it's all too obvious that others probaby might.

Just feel like crying. I so badly want to believe that this will get better, but seeing that crap this morning has unglued me a bit.

Anonynonny · 31/08/2015 11:40

Oh Gymbunny, that is so shit, it's awful when people trying to be helpful give you such lousy advice without meaning to.

Would it help you to phone Rape Crisis for a chat? To be on the phone to someone in real life, who is listening to you and not talking shit at you, might make a difference to how you are feeling. Number's here: Rape Crisis Helpline

AnyFucker · 31/08/2015 11:47

Gym and MrsT Flowers

Original poster
Gymbunny1204 · 31/08/2015 11:48

I am so sorry you've had to go through all that MrsTodd. Flowers seem trite, cake seems trite, but take what you want.

Thanks anon. I've never been able to talk about it. I go into protective mode as not nice to listen too so brush it off, make light of it, self preservation as I want it not to have happened. My child is the same age but is a lot more grown up than I was and I can't get my head around it at all.

I'm really sorry if me starting this thread has upset anyone.

OP posts:
Original poster
Gymbunny1204 · 31/08/2015 11:50

Thank you AF.

WineCakeFlowers Brewall round.

OP posts:
Anonynonny · 31/08/2015 11:57

God don't talk about upsetting anyone, this thread hasn't upset me, what I am fucking upset about is that women like Chrissie Hynde have no fucking compunction about upsetting other women by coming out with horrible rape apologia like this.

This is what's so awful about people like her, Katie Hopkins, Helen Mirren, Whoopi Goldberg, Joanna Lumley - all those women (with the exception of professional troll Hopkins) who are role models and admired, talking utter shit like this and making rape victims feel shit by doing so.

And the reason the male-run media jump on them, is because they are validating rapists, they're validating male control of women's dress and behaviour and it's a glorious opportunity for a series of programmes, phone-ins, interviews, where some (usually female) dickhead can come forward and spout more rape myths and trigger more victims.

It makes me incandescent with rage. But you mustn't apologise or feel bad for showing so clearly, what impact this sort of comment has on many rape victims.

Flowers
Original poster
Gymbunny1204 · 31/08/2015 12:30

Anon, you try are a lovely, kind person. Thank you.

OP posts:
Doublebubblebubble · 31/08/2015 13:30

mrstodds I also watched "the wright stuff" don't think I will be again after that it was infuriating, I tried to get through to voice my opinion but the line was ridiculously busy. I think (I'm not sure) that Dominic Holland's son is due to play Spiderman in the newest reboot. He is also a potential role model and if his dad is spouting the kind of rubbish he is on television, god only knows what he's teaching his children about responsibility. Its all just mortifying. Matthew is also normally quite biased when they have a topic but he certainly seemed to have a side picked from the beginning. Chrissie certainly needs some kind of therapy but maybe Matthew does too. Sad x

AskBasil · 31/08/2015 14:02

I did a rant

rant here

AnyFucker · 31/08/2015 14:29

Great commentary, Basil