The Greek debt crisis....why?

[InDespair]

cant find another thread about this so.....

Before anyone accuses me of being thick or burying my head in the sand, I can';t always watch the news in full, and I dont read newspapers. (and Im sure others are wondering too).

Who exactly is in debt?

the people?

the banks?

How did they get themselves into this mess, and why and how do they expect a bailout?

what have they spent all their money on?

And what about tourism?

Laymans terms please.

Good points about the bank bailouts. No medicine cuts, no pension cuts, nothing, just public money in bailouts for them.

Good point about Madoff. Not everyone is jailed in America, but far more than here, because in America investors can take legal class actions etc and protecting investment and investors is part of the real business capitalist system. It is a much tougher regulation than our Oxbridge one here.

"A shareholder action group wants Sir Victor Blank, former Lloyds Banking Group chairman, to be extradited to the US to defend the controversial takeover of HBOS in 2008."

www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/banking/article2646074.ece

That's the US for you. Investor protection is paramount because it is real capitalism and business.

"The Elite" are backing Greece? Tsipras is the elite and he forced a referendum that would humiliate the elite? What are you smoking?

And please do explain, how is Greece exiting the Euro "the dream of the people" - surely it's just the dream of UKIP & Putin.

'Tsipras is the elite'

Of course he isn't and nor is Tony Blair or any of the political class. They serve.

'how is Greece exiting the Euro "the dream of the people" - surely it's just the dream of UKIP'

That s what I meant. Putin is not one of the people so he is out of it. He has never turned up at the Dog and Duck.

Does UKIP get visceral pleasure out of watching ordinary people's savings being wiped out?

Wait, I thought all PPE'rs were the elite?

No, The Elite actually wear PPEs as a skin. In reality they are shape-shifting lizards.

claig really does have an uncanny ability to turn an interesting discussion into gibberish.

If greece leaves they will soon be better off as they can devalue and grow. Now what they are facing is death by a thousand cuts as the bankers squeeze them ever more.

UKIP voters get pleasure in gaining independence and breaking free from the class of bureaucrats and servants who serve the bankers and dictate what vacuum cleaner you can buy.

'Wait, I thought all PPE'rs were the elite?'

They are promoted, they owe the Establishment who has promoted them. They serve. Tony Blair is not the elite and yet he is probably the most succressful PPE.

'claig really does have an uncanny ability to turn an interesting discussion into gibberish.'

Well let's see if my analysis of what happens on Sunday happens. What do you think will happen?

'Well you've changed your tune - PPE'rs were running the country two pages back.'

No you don't get it. They are temporary politicians. Blair has now gone. They are not the elite or anywhere near it.

'Why is Greece exiting the Eurozone "the people's dream"'

You have misquoted me in your attempt to try and be clever. This is what I actually said

"the prospect of hearing Farage's laugh and seeing the smoke from his fag billowing through the Strasbourg Parliament.

It would be the metroplitan elite's worst nightmare and the people's best dream."

What job did you do in Donetsk?

What job did you do in Donetsk?

I have asked for your post above accusing me of being anti-semitic to be removed. You have accused me of it a number of times as well as being paid to post by Putin and I have let it go, but it seems you are desperate to continue with your smears as you evidently have no arguments to counter my analysis of what will happen on Sunday.

You clearly have no arguments and can only try insults so I wonder what job you did in Donetsk?

Financial Times reporting that US Treasury Secretary Jack Lew amd IMF Christin Lagarde urge debt relief. Gillian Tett on Newsnight said that Jack Lew sais that Greece and Germany are only a few billion dollars apart and lack of a deal could cause a loss of hundreds of billions.

Endgame approaching. Germany and its 18 backer countries still saying Grexit is a reality. US, France an Italy say a deal to keep Greece in Eurozone should be found.

Germany to climb down still on the cards but it will probably go to the wire.

You're also obviously trying to imply something, so why don't you just come out and tell me what job you thought I did in Donetsk?

'Why do you want to know claig - what would you do with that information?'

'You're also obviously trying to imply something, so why don't you just come out and tell me what job you thought I did in Donetsk?

It is clear that you have no arguments and are not too bright, so I wonder who would employ you in Donetsk, that is all?

I have had to report your second recent post accusing me of anti-semitism. It is a great shame that the thread has descended to this.

My prediction: Greece stays in. Very limited debt relief. Full capitulation on pensions etc - sold as a victory to both sides. Greece could easily leave. I'd say 50-50.

Claig, your views change so fast it's hard to actually have a debate without pinning you down on some fundamentals of your ideology, like who exactly are the elite, and how are you so sure they exist? Now we know they're not the PPE crowd...

OK, now I think you are close to calling it right.

'Claig, your views change so fast it's hard to actually have a debate'

No, I know exactly what I think and why I think it and have spelled it out in this thread and explained why and have given links to back it up. Just because to you and nauticant and some others the elite is a new concept (and you seem to think the elite is Jewish which I have said it is not) and PPEs (who are nowhere near the elite) etc have no significance for you does not mean I change my opinions. I have known about all that for years and years which is why I can make a case for it without insulting any other poster.

''Claig, your views change so fast it's hard to actually have a debate'

Your idea of a debate seems to be to accuse me of being a paid Russian troll working for Putin or a fellow traveller as well as being anti-semitic. If that is your idea of debate, i wonder which organisation would seek to employ you in Donetsk?

Can you say?

You've still not articulated who the elite are and why their interests are so contrary. And I think you're dead wrong in your analysis of the situation. As I've said, many times (and why).

I think you're wrong and your views change so much (Kendall vs. Corbyn, for example) that you must be either someone who forces the facts to fit, or someone whose told what their view is day to day. And yes, they do change a hell of a lot and I'm not the only person who thinks so. I don't live inside you head so I and we can't see whatever logical consistency there is.

You're also helping my theory of you being a Kremlinbot by really really really wanting to know what I was up to in Donetsk. That and the fact that only Russia is immune from your criticism.

Like I said, you're using dog whistle words. Do you see that?

'You've still not articulated who the elite '

I have said I don't know because I have never met them.

'why their interests are so contrary'

Their interests are not contrary. They adapt and change over time as the situation in the world changes over time. Now they are teaching the EU politcal class a lesson. Your analysis is what big deal is it if Greece is forced to Grexit and tha the political class don't look worried- but they are in panic mode because that would be the biggest crisis in EU history and would spread further and topple lots of European political parties and change the face of the whole of Europe.

'I think you're wrong'

Do you mean because it is no big deal if Greece leaves the Euro?

'Kendall vs. Corbyn'

Instead of trying to keep up with why I prefer Corbyn to Tory lite Kendall why can't you give insight into the Greek crisis, you having worked in Donetsk and all?

'You're also helping my theory of you being a Kremlinbot by really really really wanting to know what I was up to in Donetsk. '

That seems to be your only theory, nothing on the Greek crisis. I am just amused that anyone would employ in Donetsk someone who can't understand Kendall vs Corbyn. I'm just interested. Have you name-changed?

'That and the fact that only Russia is immune from your criticism.'

I haven't criticised Botswana, do I work for them too? This is about the EU, not Ukraine, Donetsk and Russia, although you keep trying to bring it back to that. If you are interested in that, start a thread on it.

'Like I said, you're using dog whistle words. Do you see that?'

Yes I see that that is your only argument and I have said it is not true and I have asked to have your smears deleted.

What do you think will happen?

Well ultimately it's one of two things, either Greece will leave the Eurozone or some kind of deal will be cobbled together to save face on both side. But honestly I don't know. From an economic point of view Greece should leave. But politically France and Germany will hold on till the bitter end. The way these things tend to work out is that the right thing finally gets done only after exhausting all the wrong things.

However, I don't need to fill my head with conspiracy theories to come to this view.

DoctorTwos ...... Re your post at the top of the page starting "From Max Keiser on the Twitters:-"

Where is the comparison of the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank injecting masses of liquidity into the financial system, during a Western banking crisis, after the interbank market that usually PROVIDED that liquidity - with the country Greece, whose governments were incapable of running a balanced economy and BORROWED too much and can't pay back their debts????

The clue being, all that Federal Reserve money was paid back by the banks years ago, with interest, so no U.S. taxpayer, never mind taxpayers of other struggling nations with 11% unemployment, footed the bill???

Isn't that Max Keiser geezer on Russia Today, once again proving it is televised Russian propagander?

'However, I don't need to fill my head with conspiracy theories to come to this view.'

This is what you said

"Tsipras has one goal in this. That's not to be seen by the Greek people as having any responsibility for causing Greece to leave the EU.

'It is some of the worst leadership I can recall seeing in Europe for years.'

That is a misunderstanding of what has happened. Tsipras has taken the entire EU political class to the brink, he called Germany's bluff and now the US after months of saying nothing has entered the game not supporting Merkel particularly and as I predicted France and Italy have cracked under Tsipras's brinkmanship. Tsipras has played a brilliant game and now the Greek PPE will continue it and I say PPE because it is significant that he is one for understanding the game. It is not a coincidence.

Tsipras could not have done all this without being backed and that is for geopolitical reasons and that is what this is about - politics over finance. It is not conspiracy theory, it is not "did we land on the moon?", it is understanding how world events occur and the objectives of the real players, not the political class seen on TV.

Alyosha you too are now sounding swivel-eyed loonish.

You are incapable of understanding how someone can hold views that don't fit into party packages and you are obsessed with Russia and Jews without a shred of evidence. Frankly, you sound deranged.

Why are you so threatened by claig?