The Greek debt crisis....why?

[InDespair]

cant find another thread about this so.....

Before anyone accuses me of being thick or burying my head in the sand, I can';t always watch the news in full, and I dont read newspapers. (and Im sure others are wondering too).

Who exactly is in debt?

the people?

the banks?

How did they get themselves into this mess, and why and how do they expect a bailout?

what have they spent all their money on?

And what about tourism?

Laymans terms please.

"Do you think one can both support UKIP's policies & aims and Jeremy Corbyn's policies and aims?

I've never met them. I don't know who they are."

You need to get out more.

'what claig is consistently saying (i hope you're enjoying this claig) is that she supports people power (shorthand) and whatever advances that and provides checks and balances on both sides is a good thing. Therefore she likes lots of different "sides" parts, where those parts further that aim.

I think UKIP is supported on balance as it is anti non-democratic EU.'

Absolutely. I believe in balance, in a process that works towards balance. No one knows all the answers (particularly PPEs) and therefore policies are tried and succeed and fail and are challenged and a balance is achieved.

I believe in diversity, plurality and balance. At one point, the balance was Thatcher when the unions are dictated too much, but then in 1997 I voted for Blair for balance, and now for democratic balance and an end to the out of touch Oxbridge oligopoly I vote Farage for balance and good old-fashioned common sense above hoodie hugging, husky hugging, roof top wind turbine policies. But if Farage allows GM food, then I will switch to Corbyn for balance.

I can see you disbelieve - but really, it's true!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31962644

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house

www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/08/the-kremlins-troll-army/375932/

Do you not think that Kremlin trolls are a thing or do you just doubt they would post on MN?

Hullygully .... Me a 'swivel eyed loon', yet claig who's anti establishment, class, education, rants -chose an ex City Farage commodity Trader of UKIP to post endlessly about pre election for years?

Nothing to do with UKIP SPLIT the Conservative vote, taking 2-3 Tory votes for every Labour one - thereby (almost) gifting power to Labour - if they hadn't drifted too far left?

claig - it was you who said that you'd never met the Russian elites & didn't know who they were.

But somehow you know who the UK, Greek & US elites are - have you met all of them?

I'm really liking this thread, it's becoming like one of those mad clubs with leather armchairs where people bark at each other over the sherry and suspect Philby is hiding in the butler's pantry.

Could we try and get the thread back on the Greek crisis track? This is all very interesting but a bit off topic.

yes, let's.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN?

claig IS a conspiracy theorist, by his/her own admission:

claig Mon 29-Jun-15 14:17:04
My strong subject is conspiracy theory and I am sure that there are several behind all this.

I don't know if he is paid for flooding threads with nonsense on here, but that is what he does and sadly it is for the best to get one's hat and go one claig shows up on a thread on politics or economy because no reasonable discussion is possible thereafter.

'But somehow you know who the UK, Greek & US elites are - have you met all of them?'

They haven't had the pleasure of my company. I don't know who they are, but i know they exist, just as the Russian one does.

I think UKIP is useful to Russia in another way - Farage talks up the wonderful Putin and dreams of a day when the UK can be cut off from Europe, thereby weakening Europe and allowing the Russian oligarchs free rein of the city of London (even more so than they already have). He also brings up Russian talking points a lot. He's like a more highly paid claig.

Cote! You're back.

I think claig has great theories.

And is certainly as entitled to express them as you and the others.

'My strong subject is conspiracy theory and I am sure that there are several behind all this.'

That was another joke, like saying my Mastermind topic is conspiracy theory. You have 10 minutes to answer on conspiracy theory starting now.

Did we land on the moon?
No
Correct. Next question.

Claig, you're the one who said you didn't know who the Russian elites were because you hadn't met them. Who do you think they might be?

Hully - Greece will either accept the original bailout deal with no debt relief, or leave the Euro. If they leave the Euro, even more devastation for ordinary people in the short term but perhaps a better option for long term prosperity, where Greece can devalue their currency...

Cote, you think you are very clever, but my predictions are based on politics, not finance, which is subsidiary. I have predicted Germany will cave in and Greece will stay in the Eurozone and it is due to Greece's backers who want that as the political solution. I could be wrong, but I base that on my understanding of politics. I think the financial stuff you focus on is not the main factor in all of this - it is geostrategic politics, not your strong point it seems.

I don't think so.

I think there will be a short term agreement with a view to a longer term one that includes scope for discussion on debt relief, because Obama has said so.

Before all that though, the EU leaders get to express their rage and pretend sorrow before "forgiving" Greece and being the bigger people.

At least that's what I hope...

'allowing the Russian oligarchs free rein of the city of London '

But they already have free rein in the City of London and are given political asylum here like Berezovsky was. Putin wants them extradited back to Moscow becuse he says they have run off with lots of Russian money.

I thought you lived in Donetsk. Don't you understand what is going on?

Hullygully, I think you are right. Obama is the key to what will happen. Everyone is focusing on Tsipras and failing to see the elephant in the room.

I guess 'if it's free you are the product' doesn't just apply to facebook.
MNHQ makes a profit from posters working for free (by advertising at them) others may also seek to influence us poor sheep.

I am still struggling to see it as a cost effective way to influence people ?

Donetsk is in Ukraine, not Russia claig.

Yes they do have free rein - and they shouldnt! That's way so many people were devastated by the idea of abolishing non-dom status.

Anyway, Putin has a grain of truth in the fact that Berezovsky was up to no good. But then all Oligarchs are up to no good and are rich off ill gotten gains, so it's more who he goes after than why, iykwim.

No one said it was effective, Suzanne. Just that Kremlinbots swarm over every site in Social media, there's no reason MN would be excluded.

Claig - who are the Russian elites? Are they "good" elites? Do you like the look of Russia, is it a country you'd like to live in?

The idea I think is more to stop effective discussion than to influence. It's to sully discussion.

But back to Greece - I think you're overrating Obama. He wants a strong Europe as a buffer to Russia - but I'm not all that sure he can stop Greece on its course. I would love it if he could, though!

And as you're being very doubtful over whether I lived there, I would gladly provide some proof if that would shut you up.

I believe you, I am using it as a joke. I apologise.

'Do you like the look of Russia, is it a country you'd like to live in?'

I wish the people of Russia well, just as I wish the people of Greece well, but I prefer good 'ole Blighty and the Dog and Duck and no other country on earth is blessed to have a political statesman and innovative thinker like Nigel Farage. So I would not want to live anywhere else but this great free country where the Daily Mail is sold on every streetcorner and the whole country rebelled against the metropolitan elite in the General Election.

'But back to Greece - I think you're overrating Obama. He wants a strong Europe as a buffer to Russia - but I'm not all that sure he can stop Greece on its course. I would love it if he could, though!'

Finally we are back to what this is really all about - politics and not finance.

I think you are wrong. I think the whole world will see who runs Europe and it isn't Germany. Yes, the US wants Europe as a buffer and it has it. It is not going to lose it or lose Greece. It is teaching Germany a lesson and getting them to start pulling their weight and start paying up because the US has delegated Germany to run Europe for it and it is not pleased with the greedy way Germany has done it by not easing austerity and not providing QE to get European economies out of a hole.

The Greeks and Tsipras are humiliating mighty Germany and all of the European College of Europe class of bureaucrats and that would be impossible without the US having their back. That's politics, that's power and Germany is a paper tiger and will have to change its policies.