Rebecca Minnock Case Thread 2

[sonnyson12]

Further judgement released:

www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/ethan-williams-private.pdf

Previous judgements:

www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgments/roger-williams-v-rebecca-minnock-and-ethan-freeman-williams-2-judgments/

Yes I also agree with what you say about victim status Bellemere.

Er, did they not see all the tearful interviews played out in front of news cameras?

This takes wilful blindness to new and horrifying levels.

Yes but "it was in the family courts where there is no reporting so how can that be manipulating the media?!?!??!"

Vivienne,

As Spero stated,

It is to assist the Judge in his own decision and not as the media and RM FB group claim 'the father will decide if they mother is jailed'.

I think she should be jailed, but if I was the father in this case faced with this question (and in my own case a judge did ask me for my opinion on an order that prohibited the mother from doing something) I would probably say that I was against the mother serving a prison sentence.

The Judge may have already decided to sentence her, and may do so anyway, but it is fair to give the father a chance to voice his own opinion before the decision is given, especially as this is being publicised.

The RM supporters will find a way of blaming the father regardless of what he says, so there is little chance it would make much difference to those that are trying to blame him.

The people commenting on the FB group have absolutely no grasp on the reality of the situation.

They are just reacting to their own delusional view and the wrongly perceived injustice that RM is facing.

I'm not quite sure why but it is the comments made by men on there that make me despair the most.

I have given up trying to understand how that Facebook group sees the world. It's like watching a multi vehicle pile up on the M25, made up entirely of clown cars.

If I was Really Cynical and bought into the notion that all is explained by the Evil Patriachy, the only way their actions make sense is if the father is orchestrating them from the sidelines to guarrantee a custodial sentence for the mother.

That'll be it Spero. I think you've nailed it!

In fact, that notion sits with me more comfortably than the fact that people do actually see the world in this way.

Which is probably why some people readily accept that all is explained by the Evil 'Patriarchy'.

But if it's NOT the father pulling the strings, I have to accept this is at least 700 people who are so desparately, tragically stupid and ill-informed that they sincerely believe they are doing something positive and helpful in their witless urgings to commit further and more serious contempts.

And despite my years grappling with JH I am not yet ready to have such a bleak view of humanity.

For some reason, RM's actions and the support group remind me of any epsiode of Pinky and the Brain.

RM being the Brain.

Sadly Spero, 700 is only the number of people that can be bothered to join the group.

I actually wish that only 700 people thought like this.

They are banning anybody that dare challenges the group for 'safety reasons'.

Give me strength.

I heard a Hemmings/Ian Josephs supporter on the radio yesterday ringing in to a discussion about, believe it or, the families who have disappeared to Syria. She was saying she didn't find it at all worrying, because she felt that any parent is better off out of the country due to the evil Stasi social services taking over people's families and forcing adoptions. She said quite seriously that several children a day were being forced into adoption and that all families in the UK are at risk of this. She said her brother had been advised by Ian Josephs to go to France to avoid abuse accusations and he had been picked up there and arrested, and basically she felt people were better off even in Syria. The sheer stupidity of it all was unbelievable. Vanessa Feltz, who was the presenter, was basically making out that she didn't understand what the woman was saying, but I suspect that the reality was that she just wanted to get rid as soon as possible.

I'm afraid that is the level of intelligence of RM's Facebook supporters, and it really is seriously worrying that people like JH and IJ devote their lives to feeding their fantasies.

Dear god they have JH on board and want Katie Motormouth Hopkins??

If it were not so tragic and a little child in the middle of it all it would be quite entertaining watching them.

www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgments/roger-williams-v-rebecca-minnock-and-ethan-freeman-williams-2-judgments/

The judgement about Andrew Butt has been made public. The judge has 'kicked some Butt' there.

I'm can't really see how he won't imprison RM.

Unless he hands down a suspended sentence. I don't know how sentencing for contempt works.

Could be community service couldn't it? Or a fine, though I understand she's on benefits and therefore that's unlikely.

wow. That judgment re Mr Butt was fierce.

I agree, I don't see how he can approach Mr Butt in those terms but treat RM more lightly.

Well exactly. It's one thing to be a big key board warrior but there are serious real life consequences.

Which is what none of those muppets on the Facebook group seem to have realised.

Purple ribbon campaign and petitions to the Prime Minister!

If it wasn't for F4J's poor reputation (although I'm sure many members do have genuine reasons for their grievances) this bunch of bigots would be donning Lycra superhero outfits and scaling buildings.

RM support group page states, I can only presume by those 'in the know';

"Urgent update.

Ethan's father Roger has made his mind up, the judge said it was his choice.
Next Friday Rebecca Minnock will be going to jail.
How could a man do this to the mother of his child.
Still likes control...still likes power...
Parent alienation, emotion harm and abuse on his part towards Ethan don't you think"

and

"Just had it confirmed so let's get out there let's get this page viral"

The comments that follow are beyond astonishing.

I don't believe that. The hearing for it is next week, the judge has made it clear that the press are not to be involved unless he says so and even if Williams had said that was what he wanted, it's ultimately the judges decision.

A hearing where someone is at risk of being sent to prison HAS to be in open court.

There was a recent practice direction in March www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/practice-direction-committals-for-contempt.pdf

Open justice is a fundamental principle. The general rule is that hearings are carried out in, and judgments and orders are made in, public. This rule applies to all hearings, whether on application or otherwise, for committal for contempt irrespective of the court in which they are heard or of the proceedings in which they arise

the guidance goes on to say that this principle can be departed from but only in the most exceptional circumstances - I imagine that would apply to cases involving national security.

This absolutely has to be in open court.

From the guidance... even if the hearing is kept private, the judgement MUST be public.

Judgments
13.(1) In all cases, irrespective of whether the court has conducted the hearing in public or in private, and the court finds that a person has committed a contempt of court, the court shall at the conclusion of that hearing sit in public and state:
(i) the name of that person;
(ii) in general terms the nature of the contempt of court in respect of which
the committal order, which for this purpose includes a suspended
committal order, is being made;
(iii) the punishment being imposed; and
(iv) provide the details required by (i) to (iii) to the national media, via the
CopyDirect service, and to the Judicial Office, at [email protected], for publication on the website of the Judiciary of England and Wales.