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Rebecca Minnock Case Thread 2

188 replies

sonnyson12 · 16/06/2015 22:12

Further judgement released:

www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/ethan-williams-private.pdf

Previous judgements:

www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgments/roger-williams-v-rebecca-minnock-and-ethan-freeman-williams-2-judgments/

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sonnyson12 · 18/06/2015 17:47

I'm sure he will be made aware.

I think the it was the Daily Mail which led with a 'Father will decide' type of headline and now the 'support' group is going absolutely bat shit at the father.

Poor man, clearly all he has ever done is apply to have a relationship with his child. I'm not sure how attitudes like this can be changed and I don't think prison will bring about any change in her, clearly.

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sonnyson12 · 18/06/2015 17:54

Peruvian,

It doesn't matter what RM supporters think, in this case there had been very clear, serious non compliance with court orders.

A judge can decide if someone is in contempt of court if he believes they are.

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sonnyson12 · 18/06/2015 17:57

Judges have much discretion in deciding who is in contempt.

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Spero · 18/06/2015 19:25

Interesting point Peruvivan, I confess I don't know. I thought it was up to the judge to decide what sentence to pass for the contempt, which was a breach of earlier orders made - but it does sound clear in this case that the onus is on one of the other parties to make an application??? better go and check that...

In other sobering news, the facebook group now has over 1,000 members.

PeruvianFoodLover · 18/06/2015 21:25

in other sobering news, the facebook group now has over 1,000 members.

Don't despair, spero, David Icke''s FB page has 615000 members; now that really is a concern.....!

sonnyson12 · 18/06/2015 21:29

Well, the friend on the FB 'support' group is stating that it is 100% confirmed that RM will be jailed 'because' of the father.

Due to RM, her family and her friends inability to keep their mouths I dare say that it looks as though the reality is that the father and/or the guardian are of the opinion that RM should face contempt proceedings.

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Minus2seventy3 · 18/06/2015 22:20

All that FB "support" page needs now is a slimy dose of Jeremy Kyle - some of the opinions are, frankly, outrageous (and an affront to spelling and grammar).
The continual postings of snide memes, and half-baked studies of male abusers, more or less painting the father as a sexual abuser/druggie/wife abuser, is gonna give that poor child some real nasty reading when he's old enough to Google. All the while ignoring that the mother is such a caring soul as to make up allegations to ruin a life and subject a child to unnecessary medical examinations for "sexual abuse".
They're having a pop art the judge also... One wonders if the only reason it hasn't been shut down, is whether someone is collating some choice excerpts to throw at a few people a little further down the line. Someone to be "Hoisted by one's own petard", perhaps?

Spero · 18/06/2015 22:25

Thanks a bunch Peruvian. That is not very cheery news.

However, this thread is forcing me to brush up my obviously shaky knowledge of the committal process, I return to the seminal case of Hammerton
www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed2305

This para is relevant
...Yet a sense of urgency often impedes the fair conduct of committal proceedings. The courts have frequently, in such cases, explained the importance of time for reflection. This is no less true in family cases, inflamed, as they often are, with a high degree of tense emotion (see e.g., in Re M (A Minor) Contempt of Court: Committal of Court's Own Motion) [1999] Fam 263 and in Re G (para 22)). But the need for an opportunity to "take stock" is a feature in all contempt cases, particularly in the criminal courts (see in particular the first principle identified in R v Moran 81 Cr. App.R.51). The need for immediate action may be, of course, particularly important where the contempt consists of behaviour in front of the judge. Even in such cases a judge must consider whether it is necessary to deal with the allegations of contempt as a matter of urgency, or whether fairness demands an adjournment, in particular where the defendant is unrepresented.

So yes, the court can commit of its own motion if its really urgent, otherwise it looks like its up to the father or the guardian to apply to commit RM and the Judge is wise to take time for reflection.

Re M says
Contempt may be used by a circuit judge of his own motion in order to enforce a contact order but should be used in exceptional and urgent cases only and the judge who initiates contempt proceedings should not also adjudicate on the motion for committal

Now that I am ashamed to say I did NOT recall, but it makes perfect sense, otherwise there is risk the judge could be motivated by anger at the person's behaviour.

It sounds to me as if the Judge wants to keep hold of this. So by asking one of the other parties to make the application, he will decide the punishment.

Spero · 18/06/2015 22:36

Interestingly, RM is no longer a member of the group set up to support her. Not sure how far that will go to purge her contempt however,

sonnyson12 · 18/06/2015 22:44

Spero,

I think the damage has been done. I wouldn't have thought there was any urgency in this case, RM faces a long road in showing she can be trusted by anyone in the future.

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Spero · 18/06/2015 23:01

The Facebook group are talking about protesting at the Bristol Court and mentioning 'petrol' and 'fire bombs'.

I am not sure putting 'lmao' or 'lol' after such statements is particularly reassuring.

But I think they have now settled on 'bubbles' to represent Ethan's innocent childhood.

Even Charlie Brooker wouldn't touch this, its just too bleak and stupid.

sonnyson12 · 18/06/2015 23:01

The support group 'leader' is suggesting a motto... "One love, One Mum, One Unbreakable Bond".

It would be interesting to discuss how, in spite of the obvious facts of this case, why so many hold this view.

One spiteful parent, One loving parent, One poor child and One complete load of bullshit.

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Spero · 18/06/2015 23:05

One Brain Cell, One Twisted Sense of Entitlement and No Idea about PR.

that would look good on the T shirt.

When is Katie Hopkins going to pop up? Do you think she will be leading the bubble protest outside court?

sonnyson12 · 18/06/2015 23:08

To be fair to them Spero, I think the petrol bomb comment was made in a poor attempt at humour by one male poster (possible inside agent of the patriarchy).

Those in the 'know' do seem to be certain that RM will be 'sentenced' next Friday though.

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sonnyson12 · 18/06/2015 23:10

haha, I'm lolzing at the thought hun!

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sonnyson12 · 18/06/2015 23:11

oooops forgot, xxxx

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Spero · 18/06/2015 23:12

Its a pretty bloody stupid kind of joke given how antsy most courts are about security! Bristol CJC was subject to some kind of attack a year ago when someone chucked rocks at all the windows. I don't think they will find many 'lolz' going down that route...

Yes, I was told the Friday hearing was a committal hearing, so presumably Judge will hear argument from all present and then hand down a sentence. She will be given a chance to purge her contempt by saying sorry etc, but its going to look at bit hollow with all her cheerleaders fizzing away in the background.

I must say this is going to be an exceedingly interesting judgment. The toxic addition of social media in the mix is a pretty new thing. I wonder what weight he will put on it. Presumably quite a lot because of the potential for a world wide audience.

Spero · 18/06/2015 23:13

Your hearing, your petrol bombs hun.

These people are massive idiots. I keep cycling through amusement to despair and back again.

sonnyson12 · 18/06/2015 23:17

Likewise, I don't want to look but I just can't resist.

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sonnyson12 · 18/06/2015 23:25

I think one of the most shockingly stupid things I have seen is RM's brother publicly posting images of the judge with the caption "child molester enabler".

I very much doubt that the judge will not have seen this given his previous references to the families use of social media.

It's just mind blowing stupidity.

It really does seem to be confirmed by the family that she will face contempt proceedings next Friday and for whatever reason they believe that she will face imprisonment.

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Spero · 18/06/2015 23:28

Its just beyond bizarre.

there are so many arguments you could make to mitigate what she has done.

But this is like repeatedly slamming your head in a door.

Can they just not see beyond their own noses? Is this how they conduct all aspects of their lives, as if in the playground? Quite terrifying if so.

sonnyson12 · 18/06/2015 23:35

I think they do probably conduct all aspects of their finking in this way hun.

They are completely vacuous in their approach to anything.

I'm somewhat ashamed to say that I viewed the groups ringleader's Facebook page..."Would you slap your sis or bro for 1 million?", "Too fucking right I would".

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Minus2seventy3 · 19/06/2015 07:26

The Facebook group is now a "closed group" - think one or two of the brighter sparks on there may just have realised the bile and vitriol is less than helpful to her cause.

WayneRooneysHair · 19/06/2015 07:28

Yup I just noticed that, Rebecca's brother isn't the brightest spark as his Facebook profile is public...

Sigma33 · 19/06/2015 09:38
Shock

I though my jaw had dropped so far it couldn't go any further...

Having read the update, it is now dislocated.