muslim people

[zippadee]

i am alarmed at the amount of anti muslim rhetoric that is being bandied around. particularly by the government. what is going on?
i am a white , non muslim , what does everyone think about this?

well im afraid over the last few years i have become a bit racist the reasons being that when iwalk through our town centre theres foreigners dossing about in designer trainers and probably living better than i do,obviously from the handouts that our country give when the money should be going into the nhs which is an absolute killer at the moment

p.s im not referring to veiled ladies,ive never seen one,only on t.v

I think that is a valid point, dros. And to me it also says that the woman (or her husband/father) cant handle life. A woman who doesnt want to have an affair, wont have one, full stop. And in Britain, there are laws to protect against sexual harassment, and a reasonable degree of safety, so no reason to disable normal communication to protect oneself.

There is nothing sexier than covering the face except for delicately made up eyes.

7up, are you really serious about that??? dont you know that the nhs would collapse without immigrant labour?
Are foreigners dossing around more offensive than British people dossing around? Us ex-pats had better come home right away then....

7up how do you know they're foreign?
How do you know they've not worked hard for their designer gear?

Havne't read the whole thread sorry but in answer to the first post I think it's alarming. And where a few days ago I thought Jack Straw was fine in broaching the subject, I'm now utterly confused at why he did it in the current hysterical climate. If he wanted a real debate, he could have kept it within his consituancy. The press are being highly irresponsible and the whole thing is out of control.

Thanks for that thoughtful contribution 7up

its my opinion and i dont have to give my reasons for it

Please do think about it from all sides though, 7up.
I grew up in a very narrow, racist family. Funnily enough, Im now the foreigner, and yes, its for economic reasons, I earn more in Germany than I could in the UK. And Im sure some Germans resent me coming and freeloading off the fruits of their hard work (you see, I know it all off by heart!). But hey, we all live in the same planet, and I do just as good a job as they do, thats why Ive got the job.

See I don't agree that we are being bombarded by lots of anti-mulsim rhetoric at the moment. I do beleive that we are constantly manipulated by the media though and you have to take everything with a pinch of salt. I think people clutch onto the headline of the day and stick with it and don't see past it. For example, the recent trouble in Windsor was entirely race related and between white and asian youths re a religious education centre. Now its the first time I've actually seen racial violence against white people reported in the media in such a way. Usually racial violence is only reported when it is against a minority as that's the only way its ever seen as racial. Now I am not racist but I do insist that all parties get a fair stab at equality and the white groups are just as entitled to that as non white groups. We've had to sit and watch moslem extremist leaders stand in our cities uttering the most hateful things and it be allowed to happen. I've had to walk past youths shouting and cheering about terrorist attacks. I don't by any stretch tar all moslem groups with that brush but I think sometimes we go over the top and now yet again its oh the poor moslem community. Why can't everyone just wind their necks in and get on with their lives and have a bit of common courtesy for each other???

CountToTen - please dont forget what an outcry, rewards offered in national newspaper etc there was a couple of years ago when a white pensioner was attacked by Asian youths. Black and Asian people are physically attacked by whites every day of the year in Britain, thats just a fact.

I read that the veiled TA would not work with men teachers? Is that true? If so isn't that as discriminitory as you can get? How can you function in this society if you won't or can't work with everyone else? I expect that other muslim in the world wearing the full veil are probably not required to mix in the way they are expected to here with men.

And in respect of whether or not it should be tolerated here, do you think it would be accepted for a western woman to "expect and have a right" to teach in a muslim country, wearing arm and shoulder revealing t-shirt and tight trousers or short skirt? I'm not talking sexy here, just summer wear. I don't think so. People should expect to be restricted if they restrict themselves.

curious to hear views on this situation on this thread

• best friend is sikh & trying to find a school for her 11yr old son. Rather than choose a sikh school they chose a local christian school so he could mix with a more varied crowd. She's just had to withdraw her application for the school because the head has now told her he will not allow her son to wear a turban or grow a beard because it makes him look different, they're happy to have practicing hindus at the school so the fact that he is a sikh is not a problem per se. They're not kicking up a fuss, they're not going to the papers saying look at me I'm being discriminated against, they're going to find a more suitable tolerant school.

Deeply odd IMO for a Christian school to act in such a way. Is it CofE? In which case I'd suggest contacting the local diocese. As a Christian myself I can promise you that how people look is of zero importance.

I find it odd too nearlythree - she's been my best friend for 20yrs so I trust what she's telling me. I think she was shocked & disappointed because that hadn't been made clear on the open day, she was told when she went to hand in the registration form apparently.
Its an independent school that describes itself as having a christian ethos.
It's not that she wouldn't fight for what she thought was right if that was necessary, I think that this has changed her opinion on the suitability of the school.

Although the media manipulates the public, unless one is rather thick and naive, I feel the media only taps into a bias that already exists. For instance, I have never taken seriously any negative press given to ethnic or religious groups because I don't subscribe to those views. However, I would heartily go along with any bush bashing propoganda and blair cronyism because it suits me to.

Sounds very odd to me, hooleymama. Think your friend should steer well clear.

Scho - do you not think there should have been a public outcry about that regardless of the colour of the attackers skin?? Anyone being attacked is wrong. My problem is why should we only hear about it when it is an apparant minority?? Yes black and asian people are beaten up but so are white people, polish people and every other group within the community. The media just picks up on a feeling and expolits it. All I was also saying is I'm getting rather bored of all the different groups in the community moaning about how they are treated or how worse off they are than others and how discrimnated against they feel (and thats all colours, religions etc) when our hospitals are crumbling around us, kids are being mugged for their mobiles, people are being kicked to death for their off licence purchases etc etc - surely there are more important things to be concerned about. I don't agree with the veil per se but if people want to wear it let them get on with it. I did used to care about things like this and get quite indignant about it but I am at that point where I'm like lets all just get over it and get on with our lives and each other and fight for the common good and socitey for our kids to live in.

yep she is - though is a bit miffed because its the best of the nearest schools, now she has to look again and further afield.
If I remember correctly Sikhs are protected under racial discrimination laws because they are considered an ethnic group, hypothetically.

Yes, I think you are right in that both Sikhs and Jews are protected in law. Your friend would have a stonking case should she wish to take it further, but the school must have a very odd (and unchristian) idea of humanity to treat someone like this and I can see why she just wants to walk away. Still can't get my head around what their problem is, to be honest.

I broached with her whether she felt it might have come on the back of an anti-religious symbolism feeling, the beard & turban being the most obvious identifiers for sikhs.
I'm sure we'll have a good chat about the ins & outs of it soon.

CountTo10 - yes I do. There should have been a public outcry when a man further up the street attacked my ex h one dark evening, out of the blue, and told him to go back to his country. We know who it was. Were the police interested? No. Was the media interested? No.
I know of other such incidents, Muslim women who have been insulted in the street (in a very backward corner of the UK) etc. Yes, there should be a public outcry over all of these incidents.

Only, if they all got the same coverage as the white man beaten up by racist Asians, all newspapers would have to be 200 pages thick every day and talk of nothing else.

You clearly havent lived with racism. It is a live issue that affects ethnic minorities regularly. Really. It is not just media hype, boring Muslims ranting about their rights again etc etc. It is a day to day nuisance in some parts of the UK if you look or sound different from the indigenous majority. Maybe that is why different groups try to get their point of view over in the media, and other people start to think like you, because you dont really understand the problem. Sorry to be so blunt, your opinion reminds me of myself before I married a "foreigner" and experienced it myself.

The veil issue is not a Muslim vs Christian issue. People have the right to wear one, but it is NOT a religious issue. It is a cultural thing. And I am at liberty to say, that some cultures are better than others. (I dont specially rate British culture, which is the one I grew up in btw, it is OK but there are better ones in other parts of the world) Islam was partly an attempt to provide universal good standards in a part of the world that in those days, had a culture that killed baby girls and treated women as slaves.

It is really a pity that different organisations are apparently jumping on the bandwagon of banning religious symbols.

The move by the French and Turkish governments is becuase they are the government. They are the state, which represents everybody and therefore must be seen not to favour one religion over another.

It is quite different for a private school to say that they dont want to turban wearing Sikh in their midst, and very sad for the children.

Schok - I agree with your tak on the racist angle/
re the school not allowing a sikh turban - how sad: and how detrimental for the children who ARE in the school. If DS was at a school that would not encompass a child wearing a turban (and the sikh boys ones are generally a small top-knot style, afaik), then I would take DS out too. It's no model for our future.

Schoko - I like your last post. I would also add that you don't have to live in a backward rural community to see or experience racism. I know a couple from the Middle East (who look perfectly normal, wear jeans, etc. no religious clothing or veils) who were constantly asked if they were "refugees" when they first moved down to Southampton and got stared at in restaurants and pubs, possibly because they had slightly olive skin.
It all boils down to ignorance.