muslim people

[zippadee]

i am alarmed at the amount of anti muslim rhetoric that is being bandied around. particularly by the government. what is going on?
i am a white , non muslim , what does everyone think about this?

Pinotmum, I remember when we were little, my sisters and I decided that clearly the tooth fairy and Father Christmas didn't visit us as they knew we were muslim. It never actually bothered me, and at the school christmas celebrations, Father Christmas was always the caretaker dressed in a red outfit and an elasticated beard, which all the children at school figured out for themselves.

That was the explanation I gave her [blush[ but I really would have thought dd's friend's mum or dad could have shown a little more tactfulness. The mum has taken to wearing the veil recently and I know she doesn't like out silly 'customs' but why spoil a child's wonderment - dd will soon work it out for herself but in her own time. I would never say Eid was this and that as dd would dearly love to have Diwali, Eid, Christmas, birthdays etc - she loves a party!

DH is a driving instructor and has a few muslim pupils. The other day he was at traffic lights with one of his muslim lady pupils who was in traditional dress (not full burka) when some fcking moron of a taxi driver pulled up next to them and shouted "get your fcking veil off!" . Apart from the fact that she wasn't even wearing a veil, it was blatant racist abuse. DH has complained to the taxi firm, but they just fobbed him off

I hope this doesn't sound flippant but some days a veil would do me just fine. One of my old collage pals wore the scarf but one day wore a veil. I just thought she was taking her faith to another deeper level and didn't ask her why. She told me and a few others over lunch that she had a cold sore she was covering and we giggled like school girls.

just a small point but the woman wearing the veil is a teaching assistant not a teacher

The school assistant is not a lone voice.
She will have a whole team of men behind her,urging her on,all of whom will be mixing with whoever they want to,while wearing comfortable Western clothing.

Here we go again....yes, there is blatant racism in the media - I posted the other night about a Daily Star feature which was pulled by lawyers at the last minute as it constituted incitement to racial hatred againt Muslims but only about 5 posters responded - which was telling in itself I thought. I saw some front pages this morning which had close ups of women in veils - designed to make them look dangerous and threatening IMO.I couldn't be arsed to read the headlines as I knew exactly the sort of red-top trash it would be. So in response to the OP, yes, there is a great deal of dangerous and irresponsible stuff in the papers right now.

But you know what? - Al Q'aeda is loving this big time. What an irony.

One of DH's other pupils invited him in the other day while he got ready for his lesson. He made his wife go out of the room and into the kitchen even though she was in full muslim dress - didn't introduce her or anything. Another guy invited him in, introduced his wife, went off to make them all a drink etc - it may depend on the individual I suppose

I am not religious and I find much to do with any religion mystifying at best. I don't understand the idea of the veil and I don't understand why people want to wear a crucifix. I really can't understand a lot about religion and suspect I never will.

Having said all that I think people should wear what they want except when there is a clear reason why they should not e.g. H&S.

I was interested to read that the TA who was sacked went to the interview (which contained a male member of staff) without a veil.

how can she even think that she could support students with a full veil on?

MB - reason given on question time for that was that she must have 'found' her faith between doing the interview and starting the job- reason given by a veil wearing muslim woman I hasten to add.

from me too.

So if a food tech teacher suddenly became a fruitarian, or vegan, he/she would still keep the job even though they couldn't handle meet/dairy products? I don't think so.

I think it's interesting how the west views the veil vs. how the muslims view it. I was in Chicago a couple of weeks ago talking to an American friend who has worked in Iran. And she told me how she loved to cover up in the burqha. My first thought was astonishment. I could believe I was hearing this from a successful well travelled business woman. Then, she continued to tell me how it gave her freedom. And I thought, what? freedom? You should lay off the drink, woman. (Just kidding, I didn't ssay that). But she felt free in the sense that she didn't have to get up put on make-up, get dressed, and waste all this time making herself presentable. She just basically got out of bed and put on this big black dress and she loved that she could go out and no one knew or cared what she looked like underneath. And she found freedom in that. And I thought that was really interesting. Without this discussion I would never have understood that the burqha gives freedom. Previously, wherenever I saw a women in full dress I used to pity them and just wanted to run up and say "Look you don't have to wear that here. You can be free."

But now I understand that it was I who perhaps doesn't understand her way and not the other way around.

I do think the west needs to be educated about middle eastern culture and probably the middle ease needs also to be educated about the west.

I'm not saying that it couldn't happen, but I will admit to being very sceptical. Particularly since it was a C of E school as well

hypothetically- DP is a vegetarian and will grudgingly handle meat products (we have 2 cats).
Frutarian/vegan belief shouldn't stop a food tech handling meat/dairy-teaching might be a little biased, but no more than the leftie/pacifist history teacher we had. Refreshing to have an interesting teacher

I think it is very troubling that there is growing hostility between different cultures. But I don't think it is all one way. There is a growing movement to spread the Saudi Arabian branch of Islamic practice - can't remember correct spelling but something like Wahabi? - among people who are not themselves Gulf Arabs and don't come from that tradition. (Forgive me if I've got that slightly wrong, but YKWIM - Black African Muslims have come from a different tradition, for instance.)

There are people who make inflammatory statements on both sides. The Muslim Council of Great Britain, shamefully, refuses to recognise Holocaust memorial day, for instance. I was glad to see there are other groups of Muslims emerging who want the same access to the public sphere - might stop government and institutions just talking to the MCB as if that somehow ticks a box saying 'yup, done Muslims'.

I think some of the people joining in the veil debate aren't actually particularly bothered about the veil itself, more feeling that they haven't been allowed to criticise any aspect of multiculturalism particularly as it applies to Islam in public before now.

This doesn't mean one should be prejudiced against any individual Muslim. But I think there are issues on both sides of the divide - it's not as simple as 'Muslims are victimised by white people.'

I think the veil is stupid

Boowilla I can see the attraction of the covering up and not having to be rely on psrenting yourself to be fit for societys expectations every day.
I just have no view on the veil, so long as it's the womans' free will to wear it - I find it less offensive than the images displayed on thecovers of magazines and tat rags.
I mean one of my ds's teachers has such bad BO most of the kids won't ask to see him if they have a problem - that's hindering their education!
I do think the TA in question may have misrepresented herself by not wearing teh veil to her interview - in for a penny in for a pound I say.

Edam, good post .

The thing that gets me is when some councils etc ban Xmas trees & decorations etc "in case it offends people"....but have only just started doing it in the kast few years. There have been Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Shinto-ist, Tao-ists, Buddhists, Muslims etc here for decades, even centuries. SO WHY NOW?

I think a food tech teach who felt strongly about it would make it impossible to teach. If she/he wasn't perpared to allow meat/ dairy poriduts to be used.

I have come across vegans who wouldn't 'allow' meat to be handled in their presence, let alone tell people how to go about doing it

I knew a guy who was a vegan. He came round to see me one day and demanded that I throw the dog's bone away, or at least hide it, because it was a murdered animal.

Ahem - you don't like it Dave, leave. BTW - I don't like seing your hairy little ginger b0ll0cks sliding down the leg of your shorts. Much more offensive that my dog's bone.

PMSL - how'd you see his ginger bollock??? Do tell!

at dave's balls!