muslim people

[zippadee]

i am alarmed at the amount of anti muslim rhetoric that is being bandied around. particularly by the government. what is going on?
i am a white , non muslim , what does everyone think about this?

Zippadee - I agree! it drives me mad. Its so sad that a tiny minority of fanatics over shadow the majority.

Think it's more anti-religion than racism.

piffle and fuzzy yaeh my kids school is good they teach about everyones way of life and thts great

anti-winterval stuff has always been poorly disguised bigotry, used to be blamed on ILEA [creaks and groans off to bed]

yes its so important that kids at school learn about the diverse religions

assimilation and blah de blah was what happen in this country in the 60's and 70's and look what happened. i reckon its good to get on with each other and be yourself at the same time
its like govt's have learnt nothing from the past

oh anyway im off to bed now and will continue another time! lets send all this too tony b. goodnight everyone.

It's been interesting (faith bashing aside) to examine how one feels about the veil issue.
Id never even given it a moments thought recently - I was worried years agom thought that it was a symbol of oppression, once I knew that was not the case esp in the UK, I had no issue with on a personal level.
I did last night think that the impression a woman in niqab gives off to folks like me who are not au fait with the dress is one of unapproachability IYSWIM
Interesing to hear so many differing views on the veil though - the Indy had a good spread today on it.

Personally, I think, so what? For years black people, particularly men, have had to put up with the stigma that we are muggers, rapists, thieves, only good at sport, academically illiterate etc by whites as well as Asians.

One of my best friends is a Muslim male (Pakistani)and he and I use to play badminton all the time but this was frowned upon by his Muslim friends. Despite our different views on religion, that is only one aspect of who he is and because of our common interest in so many other things, our friendship has lasted for over 20years. It is at this level where tolerance and understanding is fostered but it can only happen if all parties are prepared to work at building relationships.

I grew up in Birmingham near to a large Muslim area and many of the Muslim parents had no interest in integrating and made no effort to learn to speak English. At college, their children would switch from speaking English to Urdu in your company, which I found very rude and another way for them to keep you on the margins of their insular world. Most Muslims in this country are integrating. It is the hardcore minority that are messing it up for the majority.

Trust me, come January, the focus will move from Muslims and onto the marauding swathes of Albanians and Bulgarians coming to steal British jobs and sponge of the benefit system when they join the EU.

sponge off the benefit system

I think that it is because the Government are trying to change some of their policies, but in the course of doing this are trying to blame others for their own mistakes. I think that the balance between respecting and supporting different cultures, and ensuring that these can come together in a common culture, is difficult to achieve. But they're really making a pig's ear of their message at the moment.

I was back in the UK for a couple of days last week, and happened to read the Daily Express (I left for others to read with the slogan "The Worlds Best Newspaper" altered to something else)

I was truly shocked by how mean and racist it was - one forgets.

I am sure that your prediction will be correct, speedymama. (Albanians are Muslims though, dont forget)

You speak the truth Speedymama.I have had experience of nearly all the points you mention.

Me too Speedy.

Although I had a very strange conversation with a woman about Italian people the other day. Along the lines of 'all being goodlooking', 'is he a waiter' (WTF?) and 'do the children speak Italian' Err yes they are Italian and live in Italy It seems to me that there's still alot of work to be done around racism in general. An she did eventually get on to the Polish and Bulgarians. I left open mouthed....

There does seem to be a constant attack by the govt ATM on all things Muslim and this appears to coincide with an increase in attacks on Muslims (just glancing at the BBC News website). I think it's incredibly irresponsible and there is an agenda behind it.

Considering that the vast majority of Muslims are law-abiding citizens, and there are a lot worse things happening in society than some Muslims' supposed "failure to integrate" I find the govt's stance highly immoral.

Saadia, I've got news for you. Muslims attack non- Muslims as well as Muslims but you don't hear about it. Also, disagree with your view that the govt is constantly attacking all things Muslim - utter garbage. Black people could have said the same about the anachronistic govts in the 1960s, 70s and 80s and some did. However, like most Muslims, most blacks are law abiding citizens and we just get on with it and we have integrated with an understanding of our heritage.

The problem that certain sections of the black community faces is to do with poverty, social exclusion and a sense of alienation. Whilst society as a whole has to take some responsibility for that, from my personal experience, too many black people see themelves as victims, that society is against them and instil these dishonourable and misguided sentiments in their children. These are the communities that are now having the problems with crime and low achievement. They need to be honest with themselves, recognise that they are the architects for some of their own misfortune instead blaming all and sundry for everything bad in their lives.

Many Muslims, have chosen to keep themselves separate and that is what is sowing the problems, particularly for the younger generation who are confused about their place in society. Instead of blaming the govt for everything, the Muslim community should start to be honest with itself and recognise that they have bought a lot of the problems on themselves.

they have brought a lot of the problems on themselves

What is the anti mulim rhetoric being bandied around? I haven't really noticed this. But, as I am white, perhaps I failed to take note of it because it isn't directed at me. I see a lot of hatered, fear, and resentment both from Muslims and toward Muslims. But, I don't see that it is created by the media and/or western governments. But, perhaps I just haven't noticed. So, enlighten me, please?

PS the word muslem refers to a religeon and not a race. So, be biased against muslims is not racism. It is still a bad thing. But, it isn't racism.

The teacher who was sacked for refusing to remove her headcovering gave a press conference in which she made a barely concealed threat to us all, something about the government should be careful as their comments can have dangerous repercussions.

This is one of the reasons I am fast losing sympathy with Muslims. I too have experienced everthing that speedymama has said. I lived in Preston where there was a Hindu Temple that was also used as a community centre and every year they would have an open day to show off their food, clothes and talk about their beliefs and so on. In stark contrast was the Muslim Temple in a terraced house round the corner where men and youths would crowd around and stare at women walking past. They would never meet your smile or say hello.

When in Rome do as the Romans do. This is a good example of how religion segregates.

Watched Question Time last night- it's so much easier to rage at another person when you can see their face & they can't see yours - it puts them at quite a disadvantage.
Interesting to see politicians squirming whilst trying not to say anything that could call a fatwah down upon them.
Can't help thinking a lot of young muslim woman have recently taken to wearing the veil to make a point-I'm happy to leave them be to make their choice- if they're serious they'll caryy on-if they're shit stirring they'll drop it once they realise nobody cares.
Most of us are just trying to get by-the veil is alienating to me but I'm just one person.
I do wonder if these same woman would fight as hard not to wear the veil if it was an obligation not a choice.

I quickly lost sympathy with that woman, but that's a long way from losing sympathy 'with Muslims'.

The muslim mums at DS's school were advertising a meeting to arrange the Eid party when I dropped off DS this morning - and making sure everyone knew that all parents were welcome to contribute / help.

And they wished DS 'Diwali Mubarak' when they saw he was carrying a big box of Diwali sweets to share out.

I thought the teacher said that the government should be careful about what they say because their comments can have dangerous repercussions for the people about whom their comments relate (i.e. - veiled muslim women and not "us all".)

My son goes to a very multicultural nursery in London with one third refugees. I was concerned initially that the children would be damaged from their experiences in war zones etc etc. but I have spent a bit of time there and from everything I have been seen they are really kind and lovely. It's the white, spoilt brats we sometimes see at the park who have been more likely to play meanly and hit.

I think it's sooooo important that children mix together from an early age and continually from then. That must surely be the only way we can learn to get on with each other.

I was horrified when I arrived here at the number of faith schools (C of E and Catholic), which we have no hope of getting into because we are probably best described as athiest. I think it's probably fair enough if religions want to keep having schools but entry criteria should be entirely based on location/sibling attendance etc. - not on parents' church attendance in a sad attempt to prop up failing churches.

A relation's school in Surrey had their trip to a mosque cancelled because the mothers got "up in arms" coz it would be dangerous!!!!

I think the govt are responding to a general increase in the "noise" from the media and the general public about integration of ethnic minority communities. The general awareness of this has increased since the realisation that we have home grown suicide bombers.

Living in multicultural London where there are very few problems, it is really hard to imagine what it is like in a small pennine community which is completely segregated between White Christians and Asian Muslims. This is where the debate about the burka and integration becomes very relevant.

I think they are trying to raise a resposible debate, but whether they have achieved that i don't know. Could it be that the press seize upon these issues because they know it will provoke a reaction/sell newspapers?

speedymama I think it is undeniable that the govt has now decided for whatever reason to make an issue of some Muslims' "failure to integrate", and this is irresponsible because this kind of approach will not improve relations between different groups. I actually find your attitude very narrow-minded and vindictive

I live in London and have not ever seen any such situation as you describe. When I was at school I had friends of different colours and races and now that ds is at school it is the same for him. Most of the Muslims I know are very much involved in mainstream society through work and other situations.

I think you have perhaps come across some less-educated and sheltered Muslims and taken them to be typical of everyone. There are many groups who have failed to integrate. My main problem at the moment is the high rate of knife-crime where I live. We actually have police outside schools because schoolkids have become so dangerous. We are living in a society where kids get knifed in schools. With all these problems going on, to focus on the Muslims who, through ignorance and lack of education have become marginalised is utterly beyond belief.

My dd and ds attend a state primary and their class are about 40 - 50% muslim now with white, mixed races, black afrian making up the rest of the class. My dd has muslim friends and really close ones but they have never accepted an invitation to our home to play. I speak with one mother regularly and dd has been to their home but they never actually come to us, always an excuse. This is fair enough I suppose but sad as I want dd to have a variety of friends. Her friend now tells her there is no tooth fairy or father christmas and as dd is only 6 yo she accepts my rambled explanation. I feel I try hard to make my child(ren) respect others views but I wonder if my views are as respected when I hear this. Little irks like this will cause friction in a community as we're not all highly educated enough to see past it which seems to be the argument.