islamist extremists strike in france

[KareninsGirl]

My thoughts are with the victims of the latest barbaric act by Islamic extremists.

The world needs to wake up and defend itself.

RIP those who died and prayers for those critically injured.

at French magazine office www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30710883

The thing is, the fundamentalists aren't corrupting their religion, any more than Ken Ham and other creationists are corrupting Christianity - they are taking what is written in their holy book literally. This allows them to justify the unjustifiable. To my (atheist) mind, it's the moderates who cherry-pick and 'interpret' so-called sacred texts who perpetuate the idea that respect should be given to various illogical beliefs, and the sooner all religions are given the status of mythology, and taught as such in schools worldwide, the better. Can't see it happening in my lifetime, unfortunately.

Today's events are horrific, and my sympathy goes out to the victims and all others affected. There can be no justification.

Great post Furry. The world would be a much better place without religion, all religions.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/07/charlie-hebdo-freedom-fear-terrorists-massacre-war

Interesting article in the Guardian about the importance of maintaining our own values in the face of terrorism.

Of course extremists are a small percentage of Muslims. Even if you were to be extremely generous and say there are 100,000 Islamist terrorists in the world and that is a very generous figure that's still only .01% of the world's Muslims.

Most terrorist attacks take place within Muslim countries, not the West. As horrific as today is, it is still luckily very rare. Let's remember also that similar attacks like in Norway were not committed by Islamists.

There is a huge global problem to be sure but people need to keep it in perspective otherwise we will do things that will just make it worse. I agree this was a freaking gift to the FN in France and if they end up clamping down on innocent people it will just drive more people to extremism. Any response has to be very narrowly targeted against extremists and their supporters.

Also just to say that Lockerbie was not the work of Islamists, it was ordered by either Libya or Iran in retaliation for US military actions.

What religion were the lockerbie bombers? or the 9/11 bombers? or the bali bombers? or the 7/7 bombers? or the Australian chocolate shop terrorist? or isis? or hands? or boko harem?

rare you say?

There were only a small minority of nazis too and look what happened there.
.don't hide your head in the sand!

So all crimes committee by members of a particular religion are the fault of that religion? By that logic Christianity is far, far more lethal in the west.

Yes I know it was rhetorical. We could never appease them because their goals are not workable.

Oh I see, I didn't catch your meaning.

There are plenty who suggest responses that amount to appeasement.

Kareninsgirl you certainly are the winner of the 'longest list of pointless rhetorical questions' award on this thread.

Of course the extremists are in a minority. If they were a global majority we wouldn't be having this discussion FGS.

TBH I think you are the one who needs to 'wake up'

JanineStHubbins

Yep, i'd agree with you there (but then again I'm an atheist).

Islam just happens to be the religion that's causing the most problems at the moment. To pretend it isn't is disingenuous. The journey to moderate Christianity in Europe was hard fought though (and still on-going), and probably cost thousands upon thousands of lives.

If insulting people is the way you try to make a point donnie, then that's very sad. and most inappropriate on a thread about another tragedy meted out by these extremists.

Of course all the major religions have gone through a stage of committing atrocities to please their god. Some are boasted about in the bible and Christianity has done it's fair share since its invention.

But that doesn't change the fact that it's Islam that's the problem now.

The usual line of 'but they are not proper Muslims' isn't helpful if they believe they are. They could just as easily say that other Muslims are not proper Muslims.

Yes let's just ignore all the good in the world that various religions do just so we can try and take some moral high ground. It is extremely simplistic and naive to say the world would be s better place without religion. It would also be untrue. Nasty human beings will always find something to fight over and plenty of wars occur without any religious factor. Going to mass has given me lots of comfort and hope since my son died and no one has the right to take that away from me whatever their opinion. The same applies for people of other faiths to. These extremists do not just take the books literally at all, they put their own twisted interpretation on things.
It is pointless arguing about a world free of religion anyway because that is never going to happen no matter how much you want it to.

These extremists do not just take the books literally at all

That's funny because usually they are the ones taking it literally and the rest are saying "No! you are not supposed to take it literally!. When it says 'kill them all' it means unfriend them on facebook"

Karenins girl.......perhaps you could clarify what you mean when you say 'the world needs to wake up and defend itself'. Otherwise you seriously do sound like nutty Tommy from EDL. That's not an insult, it's a statement of fact.

Has anyone claimed responsibility? I saw one report suggesting AQ.

buffyp I agree with you; religion is responsible for a great deal of good in the world. Banning it is ridiculous - and extremist in itself. One either believes in freedom of speech ,movement and expression - or one does not. Anyone who calls for religion to be banned is in danger of sounding like a member of an extremist group themselves.

There have always been extremist elements in religious groups, ethnic groups and social groups. Religious violence is no more or less 'bad' than political violence, or wars fought over land/oil/money. The point is, it is violence and it appeals to a warped minority.

buffyp I am glad your religion gives you comfort, and yes, there are good works done in the name of religion - but I believe that good people would do good works whether or not they held a particular religious view - morality exists independently of (and in some cases despite) belief.

I am so sorry for your son Buffy.

One last thing - I would never call for religion to be 'banned' - that would be silly - simply that no one is taught that any religion is the 'truth', but that all are taught as mythologies - some of which are still believed by people today.

I already explained donnie. about 2 posts after I was first asked.

I'm surprised Corinne Rey and her daughter survived. I googled her, and she is one of the anti-Muslim cartoonists, there's a photo of her holding up a woman in a burqa with a bikini drawn onto it. Maybe they didn't recognize her.

Muslims hate the extremists too. They don't want to live under the likes of ISIS or Taliban.
Everytime you hear something like this in the news, I guarantee most Muslims are disgusted and angry and that yet again, some extremists are successfully turning hatred and anger into the Muslims.
They want a war. They think if they turn people against Muslims, Muslims will have to unite and be with them but they honestly don't want to.

So if we're going with this idea of collective responsibility, I assume OP you don't mind taking the blame for hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis. After all, Blair did everything in your name.

donnie, I asked Karen to explain what she meant, and she did. She sounds nothing like Tommy Robinson by the way but you are sounding a bit deranged yourself