Is Jack Straw a racist for requesting that women remove their veils?

[magicfarawaytree]

just watching the news. didnt personally think he had done anything terrible in asking.

I can see his point, tbh. It must be very different to talk openly with someone if you can't see their facial expression. I was a bit put out by a bloke on the radio this morning saying that as Jack Straw is an MP (an therefore in a position of authority), his request would be interpreted as an order,and this is therefore an abuse of his power.

What a load of tosh! I can't believe that soemone who feels so strongly about the subject, as to cover her face entirely, would meekly do as she's told by a white male.

i agree with jack straw.

obviously I meant difficult, not different.

I agree with him too.

Just been on R4 - I don't think he is being racist - I think he made his point eloquently enough. I think we are right to at least be able to have a discussion about this now. Do worry a bit re the point about giving racists some measure of respectability though.

I agree with him, and from what the news reports are saying, no one has ever refused to remove it. It's just Certain Muslim leaders finding something else to bitch about, IMHO.
Why do they jump on the defensive everytime a comment is made, it is really starting to p**s me off .

its a request not a demand and I think its acceptable to discuss it

I think he has a point re the issue of separateness though - its not working is it? I see what you mean re the T-shirt but it doesn't really cause division among communities does it? I think it is time to at least be able to talk about this - hes not demanding he is just asking for a way to start talking. I think.

definitely feel it's important to discuss it.

feel (surreally given my feelings about the current govt) that he has been brave as he has a large muslim proportion of his own constituency. think he has probably consulted and talked with a lot of those people before making a public statement like this.

think it's ridiculous to think that removing the veil will help community relations though!

and think it is very suspect to be 'put off' or 'disturbed' or indeed 'frightened' (all things i've heard people saying about it) of women in full veil.

i've seen it looking as if the woman is a victim of a culture that demands female subservience. I've also seen it looking incredibly empowering and beautiful (young woman on tube, emphasised her incredibly eyes, and the way she has done the veil and the material she had used was beautiful).

also know many many many religious muslim women that wear headdress with face on view and many that don't wear headress at all.

I agree with Batters

No, of course a veil can't cause division, but it is a sign of separateness. I know its not that simple. I think all I am trying to say is he is right to bring it up now, it is time to at least discuss it.

I agree with Jack Straw

It's a request. People can refuse it.

Fair enough.

I don't think that makes him a racist.

I do sometimes wonder how these women get passports. Do they have to remove the veil to have their photo taken and then have to remove it when at passport control? Or do they have their photo taken with the veil in place, in which case how do you know that the person holding the passport is the right one??

Sorry, being a bit flippant here, but it is a point.

I think JS was being very brave in broaching the subject. He obviously knew it would "kick off" but have we really got to the point in this country that no white person (because, let's be honest, if it were asked by anyone else, it probably wouldn't be so controversial) can raise any subject regarding Islam without being accused of being racist?

I agree with him FWIW

and no of course it doesnt make him a racist, it makes him a human being trying to communicate with another human being

it is personal choice to wear the full veil, not something that the Koran dictates.

They can't cover their faces for a passport photo.

Isn t it about accommodation and compromise? I would unquestioningly remove my shoes entering a Muslim house, would cover my head if visiting a mosque, why can't a Muslim woman recognise our conventions of speaking face to face?

I agree with him too. It's difficult ot talk properly to someone when you can't see their features - just like if you were wearing sunglasses, I really dislike that.

Personally for me, I find a women wearing a veil quite unaproachable. I'll talk to anybody but do find it difficult to talk to somebody with a hidden face. And it turn it must make it difficult for the people that wear these full face veils because if I feel like this other people might also, so perhaps they are not mixing so much with the community.

Which, I think is perhaps one of the reasons we are having all these problems at the moment.

Ah but Mr Straw wasn't telling people how to dress, he merely requested the removal of veil, for when he was talking to his constituants, and that's all it was a request, a bit like I may ask you to remove dark glasses if your talking to me, as I like to see peoples eye expressions when they're addressing me.