Is Jack Straw a racist for requesting that women remove their veils?

[magicfarawaytree]

just watching the news. didnt personally think he had done anything terrible in asking.

I am sure that JS did do it to score political points, but at least it has got people talking about it which is always good.

Don't agree Callisto - Jack Straw is an MP for a largely Muslim area. I hardly think it's going to do his prospects a great deal of good in that respect!

Yes, about 30% muslim I think? I meant in the broader sense of becoming deputy PM which will happen before a general election. Plus most voters are such goldfish these days and can't seem to remember what a politician lied about last month let alone last year.

I think JS can request whatever he so chooses, I think it's a given that the person can and most probably in this case will refuse his request.

Muslim women believe we have been asked by God to cover ourselves when outside of the home, the extent is up for debate, therefore some leave their faces uncovered others cover their faces.

I was on the train yesterday, and as I made to sit down my eye caught an elderly lady who was staring at me, I smiled at her, she began to smile back (I have an infectious smile or so I've been told), then she caught herself and quickly averted her eyes.... Then a few stops down a woman in complete niqab got on the train, the looks of outright fury on the other passengers faces made me feel incredibly sorry for the woman......

I don't think dress causes divisions in the community, if that were the case we should all wear regulation overalls and be done with it.

If JS's constituants dislike JS'as attitude they should get off their arses and vote at the next election.

Wearing a veil covering your face is cultural, not religious.
i was in saudi arabia at the beginning of this year and every friday there was a column in the local paper which was a kind of " ask allah" type thing-clearing up confusions about all things religious and there was a whole section about the wearing of the veil. It said , as others have said on here, that it does not say in the koran that a woman should cover face.She should cover her head and neck, but not her face.It backed this up by quoting a passage from the koran where mohammed had told his followers to avert their eyes from a womans face.if she had been wearing a veil he would not have done this.it concluded that by wearing a veil you were going against the prophets wishes.
in saudi -some women cover their faces , some don't. i don't think it's an outrageous thing for jack straw to request that somebody remove it. if they don't want to , they don't have to.
and for the person who said the clothes makes sense in ahot dusty country-you would not believe how hot you feel being covered from head to toe in double layered black when the heat is in 90's or 100's. it doesn't make sense at all.

alexsCURSEDMUMMY As I said the extent of covering is up for debate, some scholars will say leave the face others will say cover it, it depends on which school of faith one follows.

Love the thought of an 'Ask Allah' problems page.

And the Prophet (pbuh)'s wives and daughters fully veiled including their face once the verse was revealed.

i agree with all my mates

{fickle emoticon}

kdinas I agree completely that to have a sensible discussion we need to address the issue of segregation and community isolation but it is possible to feel it from the other side. As I said my kids went to a school with over 90% Asian kids and sometimes felt left out and excluded too. They say they feel funny now in a largely white school not having things like ramdam but that it means they have more friends and do not feel strange.

Both the aspects of clothing identity and the present infingement of human rights because of the so called "terrorist threat" and the lack of opportunity for some including carribean communities needs addressing to be truly multi cultural.

How does JS manage to have meaningful telephone conversations....with people whose faces he can't see?

That's not the same thing at all. Both parties to a telephone conversation are in the same position. With a veiled woman, the ability to read the other party's expressions, etc., is one-sided.

And I don't remember it being quite so controversial when it was suggested that hoodies should be banned.

I guess there aren't any women who veil their faces on MN then, or if they are they don't want to post on this thread. Shame, I'd love to hear what someone who is in this position thinks about it.

oh they tedt o find it empowereing

If JS really feels at a disadvantage perhaps he should cover his face too.

And then, no doubt, he'd be accused of mocking....

I agree with aelita's last post. Well said.

Shouldn't it be about showing respect to each other.

Garage owners are uncomfortable about motorcyclists wearing helmets, so they are asked to remove them.

Jack Straw is uncomfortable speaking to a woman when he cannot see her face, so asks her to remove her veil.

A Muslim teacher asks all visitors to his school to remove their shoes - Muslim or not.

We have to live together and work together - and for goodness sake talk together and try to understand different points of view.

Sadly I bet now this is public many, veil wearing, women will make a point of not taking their veils off when requested.

There was a muslim woman on Newsnight last night saying that in Blackburn (part of Jack Straw's constituency) a lot of mosques do not allow women to enter. The woman on Newsnight said that she and other muslim women had tried to enter and were 'threatened' and if I rememebr correctly she said they were assaulted. She said that if JS really wanted to do something to improve community relations, he should be doing something about these mosques and not focusing on the issue of women wearing a veil.

I don't know if what she was saying about these mosques was true but I can't see her motivation for saying it if it isn't true. I have to say that it did make me question JS's motivations in raising this particular issue instead of fighting for his contituents' right to access to their place of worship.

IMHO. In a democracy JS was entitled to raise the issue for discussion - we should be able to discuss difficult issues but discussion should not be an excuse for bashing each other over our opinions. We are a diverse society with diverse views and everyone is entitled to their opinions even if we may find them distasteful. I also think that he dealt with his constituents in a fairly sensitive way, requesting and explaining why he wished to speak to the women unveiled without forcing it upon them and providing a female chaperone to maintain propriety. I do worry about the fact that people who go to see an MP in their constituency surgery are often in some kind of trouble or have a serious problem,
(I'm not assuming this I used to work for an MP so I know the sort of queries that come up) and I am concerned that some may have felt that they had no choice but to take off their veils in order for JS to take them seriously. I don't for a minute think that he wouldn't but I do think that that is a possible perception. I now work in a job where very occasionally I have to ask women to take off their veils to be photographed but this is always done in private I also have to ask men to remove their religious head coverings. I have never had anyone refuse but I would not force someone to remove their veil/yamulka/habit in a public place nor would I expect them to do so. We all express ourselves differently and many religions and cultures and races display their reliious/cultural/racial identity outwardly. How many christians wear a cross? How many orthodox jewish women wear a wig? What about facial scarification? Should we say that's inappropriate if you live in Britain just because it is something we aren't used to or comfortable with. I have no problem with women in veils or people in any other form of religious dress it doesn't make me uncomfortable it's their choice and who am I to dictate to someone else what they should wear? The media has a hell of a lot to answer for in my opinion they promote a culture of suspicion and hatred and feed a growing paranoia in this country that makes me far more uncomfortable than any kind of outfit ever will. Again this is just my opinion and we are all entitled to our own.

Muslim women who wear the veil, will not remove the veil in front of anyone but their immeditate family anyway. It's not as simple as asking them to remove their shoes or hoodies or a motorcyclists helmet or any other examples given here.

We remove shoes within our homes because we pray in our homes, and our prayer consists of getting down on the floor and prostrating, I think under such circumstances expecting visitors to remove their shoes is acceptable.

The hijaab is considered to be Gods law, a woman will not wear it and then remove it again, she will wear it and keep it on in public.

Cause he isn't a racist, a lot of people are imtated with the veil. Its like a lot of people are imtated by young people wearing hoods, which is their code of dress, difference is places have been allow to ban hoodies, imagine if shopping centres like bluewater banned women from wearing the veil there would be an uproar. JS has proked a discusion. Not all muslim women chose to wear the veil and it isn't just on religious grounds but also cutural.

He made a request he did not tell someone how to dress. He made it quite clear in the interview that I heard on Radio 4 that if the woman refused, he would repect it, but he felt he had the right to ask.

As a teacher I would find it hard to teach a child who's face I could not see.....being able to see facial experssions aids me massivly in telling if a child understands a concept, if they are worried or scared. I feel that I would have the right to point this out. If the child then subsequenly kept on the full veil I would have to respect it.

I would not let a child do science practicals in a full face veil and fllor lenth robe for H and S reasons. Standard Hejab of a hair covering would not (and is not) an issue and long as it is tied back.....just like I ask the kids to tie back long hair.