Tory MP Mark Reckless defects to UKIP

[claig]

Panic in elite circles

Anyone still interested in the Tory Party and why they are going down, read the following article.

It is by Janen Ganesh of the Financial Times and he is completely wrong and hasn't got a clue. I like him, I watch BBC Sunday Politics, he is funny. They seem to imply he is influential and a biographer of Osborne etc. But I can only conclude that he is probably a "moderniser" because he doesn't understand what is happening before our eyes. He can't be an "old school" Thatcherite Tory or he would understand it. He most probably is a Cameroonie. He is so far off the ball and all of the Cameroonies are so far off the ball that there really is no way back for them to win back their lost support.

What is happening is not temporary, it is permanent and will change politics forever.

www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e7799f60-6e4a-11e4-afe5-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3JJ3lIOld

Desperate modernisers, same old game.

We read similar reports of homeowners allegedly telling some Tories on the doorstep that they feared house prices falling because of UKIP in the Clacton byelection.

"Rochester by-election: 'House prices will go down if you vote Ukip'

Conservative candidate Kelly Tolhurst says homeowners fear a win for Ukip because it will tarnish the area"
...

Voting for the UK Independence Party could knock thousands of pounds off house prices, the Conservatives have said.

Tory strategists believe they could be spared a humiliating landslide at the hands of Ukip on Thursday's Rochester and Strood by-election, as homeowners fear a Ukip MP would indelibly tarnish the area's reputation as a hotbed of anger at immigration.

Conservative strategists have noted how house prices stagnated in the London borough of Barking and Dagenham after the BNP won swathes of council seats in 2006 and middle class families moved out, while values in surrounding areas surged.
...

Ukip reacted furiously, saying the "absurd" theory was a sign of "desperation" ahead of a by-election that Mark Reckless, the Tory defector, is confident of winning.

"The danger is if you vote Ukip, the value of your house will go down," said Charles Walker, the MP for Broxbourne, who was campaigning in the town this afternoon.

Kelly Tolhurst, the Tory candidate who is campaigning on the fact she was born in the town, said the concern had been raised on the doorstep.

"I have heard a few people say that to me, but I'm not getting into that," she said, as she canvassed voters with William Hague on a smart estate of bungalows on the Hoo peninsula this morning. "

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11236153/Rochester-by-election-House-prices-will-go-down-if-you-vote-Ukip.html

How stupid do they think people are?

"Vote UKIP, get UKIP"

Finish the spinners off.

Claig …. As you are the “spinner” blasting social media on the previous page with anti government posts (with pictures) blaming them for winter floods that have not happened yet, I’m know you are not big on facts, but your post seems to report on what Conservative candidate Ms Tolhurst is HEARING on the doorstep, correct?

If so, this is clearly YOUR spin, as the main reason people are votoing for UKIP are the immigration fears UKIP peddle, as proven by THE DROSS BELOW coming through Essex letter boxes – so you and your party of bigots are in no position to lecture ANYONE on scaremongering, especially if pathetically “aledged” - rather than in HARD COPY sitting in passage way doors.

“Ruinous Middle East wars that made matters worse, not better.”

”Appalling neglect and abuse of children in Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and elsewhere.”

”Innocent, caring parents imprisoned under a European Arrest Warrant.”

”Open borders for convicted murderers from Europe to come in and out.”

”Another wave of migrants at Calais, desperate to reach our benefits system.”

”And they made a total hash of the Scottish Independence debate.”

This is disgusting "spin" and politicking from the gutter UKIP belong in.

Re UKIP affecting home prices, that will not be true locally in 2014, but could do so in 2015, as the prospects of massive UKIP political risk, adding to deficit risks and economic risks, ARE VERY LIKELY TO PUT UP UK INTEREST RATES.

In 2015, the investors funding our (then) £1,500,000,000,000 of National Debt, will be highly concerned on our economic future, annual budget deficit, and potential country Credit Rating downgrade - due to a 2015 UK government, again unlikely to have a party with a majority, so relying on loose (probably socialist) coalitions to make important decisions – will unload their UK government bond holdings and others won’t buy our debt, forcing up bond yields/interest rates.

As government bond yield form an effective floor on UK interest rates, when they go up, bank lending rates tend to go up, especially as the world’s financial crash isn’t fixed yet and banks have to be very careful on lending risks.

In conclusion, similar to pre 2010 General Election, when the UK was in deficit denial and heading for a coalition, our ‘AAA’ 10-year government bond yields/interest rate was over 5% and higher than Italy’s 10-year rate, when they were rated weaker than ‘AA’, had no budget deficit and already in rubbish coalitions – the huge political risk/uncertainty of a 2015 UK, with a UK parliament of the SNP and UKIP in the mix, can ONLY PUT INTEREST RATES UP, affecting home prices and kill the economic recovery.

And this is Italy 4 ½ years later, their unemployment level has risen to 12%, our has fallen to half that, at 6% - no spin there, just the facts on what has been and the risks of UKIP votes putting in a socialist coalition including the SNP after 2015.

“Italy protests erupt across the country”
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/11231773/Italy-protests-erupt-across-the-country.html

“Italy hit by strikes and violent demonstrations as anger towards soaring unemployment and economic crisis boils over onto the streets”

”Some protesters, with suspected links to the extreme Right, yelled "Viva Il Duce" or Long Live Mussolini, calling the migrants "b*", "animals" and "filthy Arabs".

How dare you call me a spinner! Spin is everything I, and the people, stand against. That is exactly why we "vote UKIP, get UKIP".

You brought up Lord Ashcroft's poll saying that the people of Rochester will go back to voting Tory in May 2015. I said that is not a done deal because the more they roll out spinners from Westminster to call the people "vile" and "unBritish" for voting UKIP, the more they will put good, decent, hardworking people's backs up and the more precious votes they will lose.

But apart from all that, I mentioned the real thing that might spell disaster for the spinners and create panic such as never before was seen, and that is if they have not prepared adequately for any floods that may come. The people have been abused and called names for years by this Westminster class of cronies, they expect to be called "unBritish" for voting against them in a landslide, but they may not be impressed if flood defences prove inadequate. That is just a harsh political fact.

"as the main reason people are voting for UKIP are the immigration fears UKIP peddle, as proven by THE DROSS BELOW coming through Essex letter boxes – so you and your party of bigots are in no position to lecture ANYONE on scaremongering, especially if pathetically “aledged” - rather than in HARD COPY sitting in passage way doors.

“Ruinous Middle East wars that made matters worse, not better.”

”Appalling neglect and abuse of children in Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and elsewhere.”

”Innocent, caring parents imprisoned under a European Arrest Warrant.”

”Open borders for convicted murderers from Europe to come in and out.”

”Another wave of migrants at Calais, desperate to reach our benefits system.”

”And they made a total hash of the Scottish Independence debate.”

All of the above are correct. The wars were wrong and caused death and destruction as well as wasted money. The neglect and abuse in Rochdale was a national scandal. Good, decent people arrested under the European Arrest Warrant for seeking the best treatment for cancer is taking things too far. Allowing criminals from all over Europe in without checking their backgrounds is a disgrace, which tragically can lead to deaths here. The scenes at Calais could end any chance of winning an election. People expect some sort of control. The embarrassment of "love bombing" the Scots and the shambles of a campaign to save the union, where Cameron did not debate Alex Salmond and where Gordon Brown had to nearly single-handedly save the union, is just another example of the incompetent mismanagement which is now so commonplace.

None of the above is bigoted, it is all just the truth. They call the people "vile", they call us "unBritish", they called good, decent people "fruitcakes", "looneys" and even "closet racists" and they called some people swivel-eyed. Is the truth now bigoted, is there no end to their spin and lies?

"the gutter UKIP belong in"

UKIP won a landslide in Clacton and it looks likely to win again in Rochester. Those good, decent, hardworrking people are from no "gutter"and they have had enough of a contemptuous political class of cronies who despise them and all their dreams, aspirations and hopes and who have their snouts in the trough.

All over the South of England, you can hear the people's cry, "kick the spinners out, put an end to all their lies."

It is precisely because the economy is in a mess and Cameron warns us that there may be another crash, that the people are voting UKIP. They have had enough of their aid money being thrown away like confetti, they have had enough of hundreds of millions of their hard-earned money being promised and handed over to a Green Climate Fund. They want an end to the bedroom tax, an end to luvvies' lavish quango salaries, an end to talking the piss.

This is the UKIP Revolt, the Common Sense Revolution. The people have had enough.

"Vote UKIP, get UKIP" is the cry, put an end to the spinners and all their lies.

Your house prices will fall if you vote UKIP, the planet will be destroyed if you don't hand over hundreds of millions to a Climate Fund the bankers' mates cry. Please don't vote UKIP, vote for us we are "on your side", the Westminster elite cry.

But the people are not stupid, they are giving the modernisers' lies a miss, because for too long, all they have been doing is taking the piss.

For the first time in years a fall in house prices is not seen as an election loser so this means nothing and in fact could play into their hands as prices become ever more ridiculous and people struggle to buy a home at all. Meanwhile Myleene Klass is saying 2mil in London wouldn't buy a garage The UK is f**ked

There you go again, spinning with "modernizers", when your tosser of a party can't keep a policy longer than 10 minutes - how the hell can you keep talking that rollocks when pushing a party modernizing every 10 minutes, by policy change definition?????

'Meanwhile Myleene Klass is saying 2mil in London wouldn't buy a garage The UK is f**ked'

Absolutely and it is because of this cosy elite of PPE graduates and such like who have ignored ordinary people for years and thought that they were the past while they pandered to bankers and oligarchs and hedge fund managers and the elite.

UKIP is putting an ened to all of that because it is a people's rebellion kist like the 1381 Reasants' Revolt which began in the same two English counties of Essex and Kent.

Lots of people don't like UKIP and lots of people do, but it is UKIP who will finish the spinners off. After that when a PR voting system has been created for the people, people can vote UKIP, Green or anything else, but spinners will win no votes at all.

Isitmebut, you don't understand what "modernising" means. It has nothing to do with changing policies, it is everything to do with Cameron and the so-called Conservatives' crap - "compassionate conservatism" and all that spin that you see all their MPs from Oxford spouting on our TVs.

Claig….. Re your ‘protest’; read the flood posts on the last page, read the Conservatives are finished and what was “aledged” on this page, ALL you CAN DO IS SPIN, because UKIP are filled up with failed Conservative wannabees, have achieved NOTHING, offer the people NOTHING, other than lies on what they can do on the EU/immigration and far right wing way to PROTEST.

Who are “you and others” that want an end to the Conservative Party so bad, you are willing to let Labour back in again, how are you fundermentally ideologically DIFFERENT when your FTSE owner funder/strategist was asked to LEAVE the Conservatives, your leader is a several times failed MP Conservative, your two only successesses are sitting Conservative MP, you want MORE Conservative MPs and councillors and RELY on Conservative voters???

And who does your merry band of failed Conservatives want to replace, the party with THE RECORD of creating a properorous country overall with what, tax cuts the Conservatives have delivered when in power over a 35-year period, and what else of SUBSTANCE, MAINSTREAM ISSUES that affect everyones lives, are you offering different?

That is why you/UKIP have to offer spin and negative campaigning, you have sod-all-to-a-jam-tart to offer fundamentally different to a Conservative Party - yet peddle anti EU/immigration fears, with no solutions a UKIP vote will change, which IS DIFFERENT to a Conservative EU Referendum a UKIP vote can stop in 2015, as they stopped a Conservative government from 2010 putting into legislation this parliament, the Referendum in the next.

Claig ..back to "modernizing", so what if Cameron changed a few things he personally stood for that 3 leaders before him didn't - and lost to Labour each time?

The fundamental Conservative policies are still there, so tell me now, how is Farage a better leader for not sticking to his whole UK 2010 General Election manifesto, and using his cheap seats down the pub to snipe at all other party's policies for cheap publicity/votes?

Let me 'understand' why Farage is not a 'modernizer', not why Cameron is, as that is clearly your specialised subject?

BBC's Norman Smith reporting from Rochester.

From what he says you can see that the Conservatives have given up. But they are in denial, they cannot comprehend the true enormity of what is happening before their eyes. They all think they same, they all sound the same, they all went to Oxford and that is why none of them have a clue about the people and what they feel. He says there is a sense of "fatalism". He says some seem to think it is maybe just a "byelection blip" but he thinks there may be something more fundamental going on.

What is going on is profound and it is going to finish them off because they don't understand it, they can't understand it. Read Janan Ganesh's, who seems to have co-authored a report on "compassionate conservatism" with Tory MP Jesse Norman, one of their rising stars who is often on the Daily Politics, article in the Financial Times to see how wrong the whole lot of them are. They are clueless about what is going down.

Call us "vile", calls us "unBritish", bring it on, UKIP and the people will take the whole lot down.

'“you and others” that want an end to the Conservative Party so bad, you are willing to let Labour back in again'

To tell you the truth, I prefer Labour to the "compassionate conservatives" from Oxford. Maybe Labour have learned a thing or two, maybe they won't patronise the people any more, maybe they will listen to us. Because we are all hardworking decent people, the type of people Labour once stood for. Maybe they will come back to us, the people, maybe they will start to work for us, the people.

As Farage says, he like Labour's Jon Cruddas, and I used to take the mickey out of Cruddas, but I now respect him, because he actually cares, he tries, he wants to do good and help ordinary people. Bring him in, kick the Oxford lot out and start helping ordinary people.

We don't care if Labour get in any more. They will only scrape in and they won't feel powerful enough to ruin the country any more.

UKIP voters are patient, long abused and reviled, called all the names under the sun, we can wait another 5 years. We know we will win in the end, because we are the silent majority and all over England and now Wales, we have had enough.

Re your pathetic, repetitive 'spin' on education; PPEs, Eaton, Bullingdon, so what, LOOK AT THE CONSERVATIVE OVERALL RECORD since 2010, versus the rest of Europe or at home; show me what those without those anti class key words in UKIP, Labour on anyone else PUT IN THEIR 2010 General Election manifestos, that would have produced a better overall result?

What is Conservative education 'spin' all about, when those within the Eaton team had the hard solutions the last government refused to address for a few years before, INCLUDING lower 'real' earnings, which fell by 4.2% from 2007 to 2010 according to the Centre for Policy Studies?

Claig ... I REPEAT WHY IS POLICY FLIP FLOP FARAGE, NOT A MODERNIZER????

As to not understanding "what is going on", this is going on across Europe, a rise of far right wing policies - the only difference is that UKIP will be going to the 2015 General Election taking votes FROM the government fixing the problems, not the governments that cause them or HAD NO ANSWERS to their national problems.

'A grave moment for France': National Front sweeps to victory in Paris leaving Socialist government fighting for life - and in Germany a neo-Nazi is elected for first time in decades”
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638965/Massive-victory-French-far-right-National-Front-record-quarter-vote-Euro-elections.html

• Germany faces having first far-Right candidate in decades
• Anti-Islamic party wins more than a quarter of vote in Denmark
• Radical left and far-Right in Greece both perform well
• Beppe Grillo's Five Star movement beaten into second place in Italy

'Re your pathetic, repetitive 'spin' on education; PPEs, Eaton, Bullingdon, so what'

It is crucial because it is why they are so divorced from the people and their concerns. There is no diversity of thinking, the Establishment has selected people who are all the same and it has led to a divorce from the people. That is why a maverick with a pint and a fag can run rings around every single one of them, because the people can relate to and identify with him and not with their "compassionate" PR talk and spin. Farage is real and they are spinners and that is why they are up shit's creek.

I don't mention it to knock education. I think Eton is a fantastic school and I am proud that England has such a magnificent school that people from all over the world come to, and I am proud that we have in England such magnificent universities as Oxford and Cambridge that are worl-class and world-renowned and I am proud that Oxford has a course called PPE that is known the whole world over.

I mention it to highlight how the system has selected them and how they are all the same.

"REPEAT WHY IS POLICY FLIP FLOP FARAGE, NOT A MODERNIZER????"

Because modernisation has nothing to do with policy changes, it has to do with "compassionate" crap and spin.

No doubt the only answers to all the above on UKIPs lack of substance, will be the old style Russian or North Korean 'spin', reported from the 'front line' of the Rochester skirmish - reporting a 'great victory', for the anti immigration party, which based on what UKIP peddles, was a by-election that had to be fought, but as Wheeler bet, was over before it began.

The 2015 war will be fought on a different terrain, and Rochester will then decide on issues that effect their daily lives, not a by-election protest vote, - or an anti immigration vote, of the like being seen across Europe, and so destructive to society as a whole.

Claig .... "divorced from peoples concerns" is relative when a 2010 country had an unbalanced economy and a £157 bil deficit, and if not for the coalition, NATIONAL DEBT/TAXES WOULD HAVE BEEN A LOT HIGHER, no recovery, no 1.8 million new jobs - we'd have been in a race with Europe to the economic stagnant heap.

The short answer is there WAS NO QUICK FIX to the worst recession in 100-years, certainly nothing the Labour or UKIP Party had in their manifestos - so based on the UK's domestic successes and those measured by looking across the channel, why do you feel the need to 'spin' the education of those in the Conservative Party, sitting in seats UKIPs failed Conservatives want, or have I just answered my own question?

UKIP's 'spin', as per that composite propaganda list I'll address later, wants voters to believe 'all party's are the same', but they are not - and of the two main parties pre 2010 and after, the policies and successes could not be more different.

Claig ... so flip flop Farage is not a 'modernizer', because he is not "compassionate", and just picks holes in the cross party policies that are? Got it.

I personally think the Tories haven't bothered to really contest or oppose Reckless as they know come 2015 they are all going to be 'in it together'

"Let me 'understand' why Farage is not a 'modernizer'"

I thought you were a real Conservative, a trench fighter like you said, not one of these ologies from CCHQ like you said. Don't you understand where the "compassionate conservatives", the spinners, the modernisers etc all went wrong. This Notting Hill Set, this Chipping Norton Set, this elite set have all the ologies but no common sense. That is why people are voting UKIP for a bit of common sense at last.

Modernisation is bullshit just like Big Society, it is irrelevant spin. People want their probleme fixed. They want housing, jobs, a future, an end to zero hours contracts, an end to wasting taxpayer money on polar bears, an end to lies, an end to scams.

They want some serious politicians who will fix things (such as Nigel Farage) not spinners who hug huskies, hug hoodies and hug polar bears while patronising the public with their politically correct crap and telling them what they can eat. drink, say, tweet, think or smoke and whether they are allowed to smoke or breathe out in parks. Not nanny state modernisers who tell people what to do, but politicians who start doing what people tell them to do.

It is now all about "who is on our side?" and the people in Clactona nd Rochester are indicating loud and clear who they think that is.

It has only just started. It really is a revolution and phoney Russell Brand style Establishment luvvies will not be able to put the people back in their box. Just read the commenst section of nearly every paper to see what real people feel. Within 5 years the whole country will have changed. The People's Army is not going away.

'I personally think the Tories haven't bothered to really contest or oppose Reckless as they know come 2015 they are all going to be 'in it together''

No noddyholder, Farage is not in it with them. He dislikes Cameron and he likes Jon Cruddas.

He did an interview with IB Times and you can see how different he is to all the rest of them. I worry that he should maybe be a bit more diplomatic, but he isn't. He is going out full tilt, gung ho. I hope he doesn't blow up and I hope they don't trip him up. He is not a "professional politician" no matter what all the professional spinners say and that is why they fear him. He is not a member oif their club.

noddyholder ..... then you have not been watching the news reports of Conservative big knobs boots on the Rochester ground, fighting as best they can.

Pray tell if thanks to dodgy electoral boundary lines that usually means the Tories need to be around 8% ahead of Labour in the polls to get the same number of seats, and UKIP are taking 2-3 Tory votes for every 1 of 'tribal' Labour, will there be any prospects of a Conservative and UKIP coalition - when UKIP ensures the Tories WILL NOT be the largest party in 2015??

There is far more chance of a Labour largest party, with SNP and Lib Dems running an anti business, high spending, high taxation, no UK defenses to Russia, agenda in Westminster between them - as forget case-by-case policies, they all agree on that stuff.