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Tory MP Mark Reckless defects to UKIP

956 replies

claig · 27/09/2014 14:42

Panic in elite circles

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claig · 18/11/2014 21:10

Just to show how all the same they are.

Take the use of the word "un-British". It is almost as if there were a central think tank, a metropoliltan elite luvvie control center, that told puppets in every party what to say and coordinated their spin campaigns against the people and UKIP. It's almost as if the front men, the spinners, the puppets were reading pre-prepared speeches written by the brightest teenage PPEs from Oxford who tell them how to try and stop the people.

"Chuka Umunna on Ukip: vile, abhorrent and un-British"

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11178984/Chuka-Umunna-on-Ukip-vile-abhorrent-and-un-British.html

"Ukip are 'un-British' says Nick Clegg in keynote conference speech"

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/520315/Nick-Clegg-keynote-speech

"Sir John Major brands Ukip 'profoundly un-British in every way'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2836732/Former-Prime-Minister-Sir-John-Major-brands-UKIP-profoundly-British-way-ahead-key-election.html

Farage is the outsider, just as the people are the outsiders to the metropolitan elite cosy club. Farage is "on our side" and that is why they dislike and fear him so much. Farage is beating them and they don't like it. That is why their rhetoric is getting wilder, that is why their spin is spinning out of control. They are losing it and we are winning. Thursday is their High Noon.

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claig · 19/11/2014 05:01

Here is a stunningly brilliant article from Peter Hitchens, the finest commentator that we are lucky to have got, on his trip to Rochester and Strood to see what is happening on the ground.

What a beautiful place Rochester sounds like. The people there are just like the ones in Dickens' novels - irreverent, humorous, and sticking two fingers up at those in "Parliment" up in "Westminster" in the "capital". That is why the modernisers can't understand them. They should read Dickens, not write tomes on "Compassionate Conservatism".

But what Hitchens says about Strood is positivelu frightening. I knew things were bad, but I didn't know they were that bad. In Strood, they don't even trust UKIP, it seems they have given up. That is worrying and those spinners in Westminster need to sort things out before it gets any worse.

Here are some extracts from his brilliant article which give a real insight into what is happening in our country. It is so good that it is worth reading the whole thing.

Anger and apathy in the glory of old England... and a vote that may change it forever: Modern England comes as a shock to most Westminster persons, writes PETER HITCHENS

Modern England comes as a shock to most Westminster persons. The former Tory MP Matthew Parris was so appalled when he visited Clacton that the resulting article was used in UKIP propaganda in the by-election there. Mr Parris appeared to be looking down a very long nose indeed at that town’s people and their lives. It didn’t seem to cross his mind that he – as a politician, broadcaster and influential journalist – might have helped to make it like that.

...

Its High Street is a glory of old-fashioned Englishness, a chapter from Charles Dickens in brick, stone, timber and plaster. Almost every enterprise is named after a Dickens character. At this time of year, when the dusk begins to fall quite early, and the yellow lights come on behind the small panes of glass, it is so moving and evocative that I almost stopped breathing at the sight of it.

But then Dickens and his books are real to me. The place must be as mysterious as Japan to most modern English people, for whom Dickens is a firmly closed book. It is also, like so much of picturesque England, a museum where you can buy and eat the exhibits.
...

In Rochester the UKIP office had been full of optimism and busyness. People were coming up to UKIP candidate Mark Reckless in the street to offer encouragement.

But in Strood, despite the lovely autumn sunlight, I found a curious angry apathy. A few weeks ago, in Scotland, everyone I spoke to about the Referendum had an articulate opinion on ‘Yes’ or ‘No’. All planned to vote, None resented the process.
In Strood, my wholly unreliable and unscientific sample was the polar opposite They were a very English sample – not a Pole or a Somali to be seen. After a while I began to dread asking anyone his views, and to wonder if I was the victim of an elaborate trick, and they were all actors hired by Downing Street to confuse me.

Almost everyone I talked to in Strood (I took up station close to KFC and not far from Morrisons) was disillusioned to the point of cynicism. I can’t really disapprove of this on principle. I am a hardened non-voter, and can’t remember when I last bothered to cast a ballot in the safe Labour seat where I dwell. But if I lived in Rochester or Strood I should certainly vote next week, because it seems to me that, on this rare occasion, it would make a difference.

If the Tories can’t hold this seat, politics in this country will change deeply and forever. If they do hold it, politics in this country will remain the same. That’s quite an incentive to vote whatever way you feel. I’m still amazed by the Prime Minister’s direct appeal to Labour supporters to vote Tory, which they are as likely to do as they are likely to tandoori and eat their grannies.

But in many cases this is a crossroads that ordinary human beings aren’t even interested in visiting. People told me they were sick of immigration, sick of low wages, sick of false promises. I said that in that case UKIP was their ideal party, but they said that no, it wasn’t. They had heard of it. They knew what it was, but they didn’t trust it. Some thought the whole election was a waste of money.

...

So I expect that UKIP will win, not least because I personally will be glad if they do. I am amazed that it has taken so long for ordinary Tory supporters to see through their party and particularly through David Cameron, an unusually transparent snake-oil salesman, even for these times.

But the polls can’t really cope with the kind of people I talked to in Strood. These are the great unmoved, the people who neither speak nor vote, the biggest political party in Britain if anyone could mobilise them. I am surprised that they remain unstirred.

Yet others are stirred. If UKIP win next Thursday, it will be first because the Tory circle cannot be squared. The Tories cannot win new voters without driving away just as many old ones. And they cannot shake off the hatred which clings to them from the Thatcher years.

Second, it will be because those who pinned false hopes on Margaret Thatcher in 1979, and then pinned equally false hopes on Anthony Blair in 1997, are turning once again to someone who looks and sounds as if he knows what to do about a country in deep trouble.

If that is so, then next May’s general election will mark the boundary between the long, settled Labour-Tory era and a new period of groping and uncertainty. Political parties take a long time to die, and they can still kick and bite quite hard while they are expiring. Rochester and Strood won’t mark the end of this long process, but it might well accelerate it quite sharply. I daren’t go further than that. I have no great expectations. But as all readers of Charles Dickens know, such expectations can turn out to be deeply misleading, or worse.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2836143/Anger-apathy-glory-old-England-vote-change-forever-Modern-England-comes-shock-Westminster-persons-writes-PETER-HITCHENS.html

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claig · 19/11/2014 05:20

And read the comments in the Daily Mail underneath that article to see how hardly anybody can stand the Tories any more, everyone is hoping that UKIP will finish them off.

It is quite amazing how quickly the change has occurred. A band of Oxbridge modernisers have killed the oldest party in Britain and UKIP will finish it off.

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Isitmebut · 19/11/2014 11:40

Claigy, Claigy, Claigy, going for quantity over quality of words, huh?

For the end of a 2/3 main party system and a move to large several parties forming coalition, similar to Italy, forget they rarely work, frequent General Elections are called and the economy suffers - the other parties have to OFFER something, rather than just spread their negative campaigning, from the doorstep (as per the UKIP anti party literature below) INTO PARLIAMENT - where they'd need to work with other parties, not just oppose everything.

“Ruinous Middle East wars that made matters worse, not better.”

”Appalling neglect and abuse of children in Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and elsewhere.”

”Innocent, caring parents imprisoned under a European Arrest Warrant.”

”Open borders for convicted murderers from Europe to come in and out.”

”Another wave of migrants at Calais, desperate to reach our benefits system.”

”And they made a total hash of the Scottish Independence debate.”

CAN ANYONE SPOT WHY

UKIP Reckless was on the air promising all sorts of anti EU/immigration measures he cannot deliver as a UKIP MP, or in a UKIP government, coalition, or whatever - WHILE WE REMAIN IN THE EU.

UKIP Reckless in promising populist 'stuff' UKIP cannot deliver, means his transition from Conservative MP to UKipper is complete; he even intimated DEPORTING EU workers (no doubt held in camps before hand), good old far right wing stuff that they say in Italy and Germany in the 1930's, later to take an ugly turn - considered unBritish with the British Union of Fascists, Ossie Mosely's 'Blackshirts', with little public support, going out of fashion.

UKIP offers Conservatives nothing, but a Labour led socialist coalition in 2015.

Isitmebut · 19/11/2014 12:15

UKIP can only DREAM of replacing the Conservative Party record of success, from what they inherited in 1979 and handed over in 1997, and from what they inherited in 2010 and will hand back to labour in 2015 - thanks to Europe.

For UKIP to replace the Conservatives success, they'll need to learn how to keep a domestic policy for longer than 10 minutes, which to date after 21 years they have not - which is very important to the voters/population, as even in a coalition with Labour, they'll need to KNOW their own policies when negotiating a Coalition Agreement, including on the NHS.

“Nigel Farage caught on video suggesting NHS should be run privately”
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-caught-on-video-suggesting-the-nhs-should-be-run-privately-9857389.html

Isitmebut · 19/11/2014 13:24

Claig ...re one of your personal 'issues' of what if educationally different to those in parliament FIXING the problems, to the UKIP spinmeisters, who's only role in Europe, has been a expensive taxpayer funded protesters, that have achieved nothing for the UK regions that sent them.

So UKIP doesn't need anyone with brains to say one thing to potential voters, as a UKIP spokesperson with half-a-brain then says 'they mean something else'.
or
To negatively campaign on other parties policies, but stand for nothing yourself.
or
To explain UKIP polices on important complex issues, either they don't have, or is under constant review.
or
Stand for Westminster, as they buy sitting Conservative MPs (with brains) for that.

claig · 20/11/2014 01:39

I like Lord Ashcroft. He is a billionaire but he is one of us, unlike those millionaires from Eton and Oxford with all their PPEs and political correctese.

Lord Ashcroft is doing his utmost to try and help the party of modernisers, muppets, and misfits and they just keep ignoring him and carry on listening to teenage think tank Oxbridge policy wonks and PPEs who have brought a once great party to its knees. He tries his best to help them and they seem to ignore him so out of touch are they.

This is the latest from Lord Ashcroft.

"Insulting 'decent' Ukip voters will backfire, Lord Ashcroft warns Tories.
...
Lord Ashcroft, the Conservatives’ former deputy chairman, has accused David Cameron of putting “two fingers” up to natural Tory supporters who are now supporting Ukip.

In a private meeting with fellow Tories, the businessman and former party donor warned that Mr Cameron’s “vote Miliband, get Ukip” message would backfire. He said the Tories had decided to “scream abuse” at “decent” former supporters and were telling them they were “dumb”.
...
Lord Ashcroft, who carries out extensive opinion polling, said the Tories’ first reaction to the switchers was to “scream abuse at them”, adding with irony: “Great, absolutely superb move.”
...
He warned that voters doubt Mr Cameron will honour his pledge to hold an in/out referendum on the EU in 2017. He said: “It’s either because they don’t believe Cameron will be Prime Minister or… [even if he is] there isn’t that degree of trust because he keeps shifting… It doesn’t matter what happens – he will still want us to remain within Europe.”

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/insulting-decent-ukip-voters-will-backfire-lord-ashcroft-warns-tories-9871432.html

Channel 4 News interviewed some former Labour voters in Scotland today who have switched to the SNP. The caption said "Member of the Tartan Army". One said the Labour Party that was born in Scotland, may be about to die in Scotland and another said Labour are finished in Scotland.

In England it is the People's Army who will finish off the other great party, the Conservatives, who are now just mere modernisers and pollticially correct progressives.

Thursday's night will be historic and the May 2015 election will be historic. The whole country is changing, we are kicking out the corporate spinners and putting the people back in charge.

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claig · 20/11/2014 01:47

Just googled Lord Ashcroft to see if he is one of them - an Eton, Oxford PPE - or one of us. And guess what, he was educated in good old Essex - definitely one of us.

One of the richest men in the whole country. Fantastic achievement. I hope he joins the People's Army one day, then we'll finish the spinners off.

"In the Sunday Times Rich List 2009 ranking of the wealthiest people in the UK he was placed 37th with an estimated fortune of £1.1 billion"
...
He was educated at Norwich School, Royal Grammar School, High Wycombe, and Mid-Essex Technical College (now Anglia Ruskin University), where he obtained a Higher National Diploma in Business studies"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Ashcroft

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claig · 20/11/2014 01:55

'He said the Tories had decided to “scream abuse” at “decent” former supporters and were telling them they were “dumb”.'

When I first read that I thought he must be referring to Tory moderniser, Isitmebut.

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claig · 20/11/2014 02:05

Sorry, it wasn't Channel 4 News, it was BBC Newsnight who interviewed them.

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Isitmebut · 20/11/2014 10:27

There is no point insulting UKIP voters, as similar to any attack against the person, physically or mentally, they are the VICTIMS, the victims of a political scam.

UKIP have lied to voters for many years in what their vote would mean to the UK leaving the EU, adding in the immigration element, so that is UKIP's undeniable 'pedigree' - no one can therefore trust a thing they say, or policy, as it will be 'reviewed' the next day, when targeting a different set of voters.

So when most of those interviewed voting UKIP give their reasons for doing so, there are either those citing immigration (that UKIP can do nothing about), or cite 'all politicians are the same', which if those persons were well read, they would see that looking at the core policies and/or record in power, they are VERY DIFFERENT.

UKIP propaganda therefore works in two ways; they are banking many years of BNP lite anti EU/immigration rhetoric, and appealing to those who only can (or want to) get their political info from soundbites and generalized, like the list below CURRENTLY coming through Essex doors.

“Ruinous Middle East wars that made matters worse, not better.”
”Appalling neglect and abuse of children in Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford and elsewhere.”
”Innocent, caring parents imprisoned under a European Arrest Warrant.”
”Open borders for convicted murderers from Europe to come in and out.”
”Another wave of migrants at Calais, desperate to reach our benefits system.”
”And they made a total hash of the Scottish Independence debate.”

CAN ANYONE SEE WITHIN SUCH NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING ABOVE WHAT UKIP ARE 'OFFERING' VOTERS?

Voter are therefore not to blame, they are the victims of a UKIP phycological MUGGING.

claig · 20/11/2014 10:35

'CAN ANYONE SEE WITHIN SUCH NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING ABOVE WHAT UKIP ARE 'OFFERING' VOTERS?'

Some common sense.

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CFSKate · 20/11/2014 10:38

Farage and Canada

claig · 20/11/2014 10:45

Thanks CFSKate, that is an interesting article.

This is what it says about the Canadian Reform Party

"Reform had, he says, a good slogan - "A common sense revolution" - that reflected Reform's anti-establishment, blue collar agenda. Expect a similar slogan from UKIP in this summer's local elections."

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claig · 20/11/2014 10:53

This is the great Peter Hitchens writing about the Tory party way back in 2005. He foresaw their decline then. He realised that all the parties are the same, they are all politically correct and no longer represent the people. No one stands up for the people any more. They are so pointless that all they can bring in is stuff like banning smoking in cars or parks or minimum alcohol pricing levels. That is why the people have abandoned the whole lot of them. The lunatics took over the asylum but common sense is now making a return.

"The Tories are doomed
The liberal elite wants to give Cameron a fair wind, but the main parties now ignore public opinion
...
Labour and the Tories are like a pair of corpses, stiff with rigor mortis, propping each other up. They no longer represent the true divisions in British society, which is why Labour can win only 22% of the popular vote, and the Tories a mere 20%. It is astonishing to think that neither of the major parties opposed the Iraq war; that neither resists the introduction of civil partnerships, devolution or the Northern Ireland peace process; that neither advocates withdrawal from the EU, a return to selective education or the reintroduction of the death penalty. Every important issue is left undebated and unexamined while the frontbenches quibble over trivia. Had it not been for pressure and ridicule from conservative journalists, the Tory party would even now support identity cards and all the accompanying repressive rubbish pursued in the name of the "war on terror".

www.theguardian.com/politics/2005/dec/14/conservatives.uk1

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Isitmebut · 20/11/2014 10:55

With no guarantee that UKIP's policies won't disappear like Mary Poppins, when the wind changes direction.

claig · 20/11/2014 11:00

Hitchens wrote this way back in 2005

"Mr Cameron may himself be young, new, etc, but his cruellest jab at the prime minister [Tony Blair] will rebound on him. Youth and novelty all come to dust and it is quite certain that it will be said of him too that "You were the future, once." The only question is, how soon?"

It has taken nearly a decade, but Rochester is their High Noon.

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claig · 20/11/2014 11:07

Isitmebut, can't you understand that this goes way beyond policy - this is about "who is on our side?"

The people have had enough. We don't care any more about their terrifying threats that Miliband will get in. Who cares? He is actually better than the modernisers who deceived us and pretended they were conservative, at least Miliband doesn't lie to us.

We know that in another 5 years, we will be challenging Labour everywhere and they won't be able to beat us, because we are the People's Party and they are the Politcally Correct Luvvies' Party.

And Labour know it, you can see how they are already beginning to change policy as fast as they can. Labour have some good people - Jon Cruddas, their policy chief, is very good. Maybe he will understand what is happening, maybe he will bring Labour back to the people and end their politically correct pandering to a London luvvie elite.

I think we are going to see a Labour/UKIP type deal to form a government and together they will finish the Tories off. After that it will be a straight fight between Labour and UKIP, between Labour and the People and the People are bound to win.

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Isitmebut · 20/11/2014 11:15

Claig .. why do you bother keep quoting Hitchins, other than the fact that is what UKIP is all about, trying to talk down other parties rather than what UKIP stands for longer than the current meeting?

I used to read the Daily Mail most days, but all the decent journalists have left, and either those that CAN'T get a job elsewhere or 'downgraded' replacements, now write for them.

Hitchins is an intellect, but similar to you, the Conservatives can still have 95% of Thatchers policies, but just because he/you don't believe in some of the Cameron changes i.e. gay marriage, green energy. then some how they are not Conservative.

If you need to drag up 2005, you are desperate, as Howards Conservative manifesto was more UKIP than UKIPs, but the Labour "end of boom and bust" was still in boom, the housing boom and the government 'money tree' still producing - so people though no need to change yet.

In 2015. one of "the corpses" with policies and records in power, will be in power - and the UKIP who can't bring the UK out of the EU, or curb immigration, or stand by a policy longer than it's first birthday - will just ensure that it is the Labour Party, as the biggest party with whatever % they get.

There are two economic/country models to chose from, Labour's or the Conservatives; one has proven to be robust and sustainable over the past 40-odd years, the others hasn't - and UKIP headed by a failed bunch of Conservatives offer nothing different but opposition, for opposition sake votes + Labour.

claig · 20/11/2014 11:19

'why do you bother keep quoting Hitchens'

Because he is by far the greatest journalist and commentator this country has got, which is why he is reviled by all the London luvvies and the metropolitan elite. He still tells the truth, he refuses to lie and spin. He sees through the lies and pricks the bubble of pomposity and deflates the posturing of the politically correct elite.

Thinkers like Hitchens are rare because greatness is rare.

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claig · 20/11/2014 11:21

'I used to read the Daily Mail most days, but all the decent journalists have left, and either those that CAN'T get a job elsewhere or 'downgraded' replacements, now write for them.'

To say that of the great Daily Mail is almost sacrilege!

A lot of politically correct progressives have left. But the great ones are still there. We lost one of the best - Melanie Phillips - but we hope one day we will get her back too.

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CFSKate · 20/11/2014 11:30

Simon Danczuk Labour MP wrote "Commentators frequently anguish over 'left wing’ and 'right wing’ policy differences in Westminster, but the reality is there are only two types of politics on offer in the UK. That’s metropolitan politics and rest of the country politics."

I wonder what a left-wing version UKIP would look like?

claig · 20/11/2014 11:35

Simon Danczuk is fantastic. He is real Labour, old Labour, not metropolitan Oxbridge Labour.

'I wonder what a left-wing version UKIP would look like?'

UKIP is moving ever leftwards. There will eventually be a battle within UKIP about who which side of UKIP will win. But a left wing populist people's low-tax common sense party would be unbeatable.

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CFSKate · 20/11/2014 11:39

I thought Farage wanted to privatise the NHS?

claig · 20/11/2014 11:40

The problem is that Labour is really a big business party just like the Conservatives. They both abandoned the people years ago and both supported war in Iraq etc. They are not allowed to do anything else.

That is why UKIP has shaken everything up. They don't follow a big business script. They are independent and follow the wishes of the people, not of the Establishemnt, whom they openly mock.

That is why there is such panic in elite circles. They fear the game is up.

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