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Conservative Carswell defects to UKIP

999 replies

Isitmebut · 28/08/2014 13:46

Modernizer Carwell won the new Clacton seat in 2010 with a large majority, heavily influenced by Ukip deciding not to stand a candidate themselves – so he has found a natural home with those that have a totally anti EU stance, but seems to forget that Ukip without a parliamentary majority cannot change British law to bring us out.

Claig …… after all your rants about right wing ‘modernizers’, you now own another one – so time for you to ‘jump’ the other way? lol

P.S. His defection was hardly cold, but by 1.30pm Wikipedia had been changed to reflect his defection. Who do you think was in a hurry to reflect his move, Ukip or the Conservatives? lol

OP posts:
WetAugust · 06/10/2014 22:01

Have just been offered accommodation in Rochester I want to come down to support Mark Reckless. Tempted

WetAugust · 06/10/2014 22:01

... If I want... Pesky ipad

claig · 06/10/2014 22:17

Go for it. This is history in the making.

What was amazing about the 1381 Peasants' Revolt is that Rochester features in it too, as the rebels took over Rochester castle.

The 2014 People's Revolt starts in Essex and then moves to Rochester, and that is only the start.

claig · 06/10/2014 22:26

I never used to like John Harris of the Guardian because in the early days he seemed to be to be just another sneering Oxford type who looked down on the people when the metroplitan elite has him on Newsnight Review etc.

But now I have come to think he is a very good analyst of what is happening in society, oeothe best that the country has got. He has changed, he now understands. He is Labour and he is not for UKIP, but he understands UKIP, he understands the people. He has good insights even if he is not a UKIP supporter.

Here is a piece he made for the Guardian about the rise of UKIP in the East of England. When you see Jaywick and how the people there have been abandoned, it is absolutely shocking.

WetAugust · 06/10/2014 22:36

a few commentators do actually understand the situation. Many more get it completely wrong like the dickhead journalists doing the Press Review on Sky the other night who were convinced that these defections to UKIP were just MPs saving their necks. How wrong they are.

Cleggy on News night next. Yuk

In mrs Ts day they always said that Basildon, Essex was a barometer of the mood of the country so when Amis won it for the Tories we knew there would be a Tory Govt. Essex does seem to be a bellwether.

Would live to go to Roch but too difficult to arrange catteries etc. Maybe somewhere nearer.

Am thoroughly enjoying this pre election party conference season. I see Ukip are having their NW conference in Nov.

claig · 06/10/2014 22:42

Yes, people have been let down so badly that change will now come.

And yet the BBC still interview that Westminster and Cambridge nonentity, Nick Clegg, who spins through his teeth and is now totally irrelevant. It is a game for spinners like him, but the people have had enough.

WetAugust · 06/10/2014 22:52

Very good video from John Harris and he's right that mainstream politics have left the people behind. I disagree with his analysis that people are voting Ukip because they are afraid (of foreigners, a. Litho ugh that was unspoken). But he's right in saying that it's a grass toots democratic movement. Farage. ' Clacton battalion of the people's army' made me laugh,

I really enjoy watching supporters of the mainstream big 3 trying to get their heads around why people are supporting Ukip. Nd their amazement when they find that no matter his hard they try, they cannot dissuade the voter from backing UKIP. Grin It's a phenomenon they just don't understand

I could see something had changed in early May when I saw a UKIP stall at Helston floral dance.

Anyway. I shall be sitting up last on Thursday night Friday morning go see history being made.

claig · 06/10/2014 22:58

'I could see something had changed in early May when I saw a UKIP stall at Helston floral dance.

Exactly. None of them really understand it. Even the so-called UKIP expert, Rob Ford, who wrote the book on UKIP that all the spinners are busy speed reading right now as they try to understand what the people are thinking, has got it wrong.

He thinks UKIP is about the left behind voters, working class etc. But it is also about the middle class and even millionaires like former Tory donors. It is uniting everyone who realises that these spinners in the other parties have let the whole country down as they strip the people of power and a voice and hand over our sovereignty to a bunch of bureaucrats in Brussels who ban our vacuum cleaners and give us health hazard lightbulbs as well as economic collapse.

WetAugust · 06/10/2014 23:02

Spot on Claig. Keep spreading the word.

WetAugust · 06/10/2014 23:30

Claig. Right now Bbc news channel. The battle for Clacton. Finishes at midnight

claig · 06/10/2014 23:37

Brilliant, thanks. Missed first 10 minutes but got it now.

WetAugust · 06/10/2014 23:48

sounds like it's not just Jaywick that's deprived if thee area is short of 18 GPs

WetAugust · 06/10/2014 23:49

It just makes you wonder where all our tax goes. Confused

claig · 06/10/2014 23:52

Yes, frankly this is shocking. These politicians are like amateur hour. So much flannel and spin and amateurism, no wonder nothing ever gets better and people are let down.

claig · 06/10/2014 23:55

'It just makes you wonder where all our tax goes'

Wasted. In the hands of the metropolitan elite's mates. Advertising spend, PR campaigns, politically correct climate change coordination campaigns. So much waste and lack of focus. Amateurism. Very sad.

claig · 06/10/2014 23:59

The solution is direct democracy. Let the people decide in local referenda what the priorities should be and how their money should be spent and take decisions out of the hands of these amateurs and just make them administrators of the peope's will.

WetAugust · 07/10/2014 00:00

You can see from that programme why people are demanding change.

claig · 07/10/2014 00:05

Yes. It almost seems like a game for these amateurs. This is serious stuff, people's lives and livelihoods depend on good management of resources and efficient implementation and from watching that lot I can see that the phrase "he couldn't run a bath, why would you let him run the country" applies to more people than just Miliband.

claig · 07/10/2014 00:12

If only we could have Swiss-style democracy. And they told us on Newsnight that Switzerland is doing better than all of the EU economies and Switzerland is not in the EU. Let's learn from the Swiss, they seem to be gettng it right.

Isitmebut · 07/10/2014 11:08

Claig …. you don’t follow policies, otherwise you would not have spent god knows how long telling people on here UKIP are different, when UKIP have dishonestly pretended they could bring the UK out of the EU for 20-years – so you supported a party who 100% LIED on 100% of their policies, what they could deliver to their voters.

If UKIP cannot be believed to deliver on their EU CORE policy, they can never be trusted with responsibility in Westminster, as proved by the continual General Election flip-flopping of policies/values for targeted votes.

In essence, Ukip offers the UK electorate nothing but ant-politics propaganda and far right nationalist misinformation, pretending they are different to a ‘Westminster elite’ they tell voters are ‘all the same’, but in truth THE POLICY DIFFERENCE could not be so different for decades i.e. on the EU referendum, immigration and the economy.

The United Kingdom Independence Party, as it’s core policy says on the can, WAS for the UK to leave the EU and voters (wrongly) believing Ukip could offer that core policy trusted Ukip.

NOW Ukip is just ‘for’ parliamentary seats in Westminster, so don’t care what happens to the UK economically and hypocritically staying in the EU is now secondary to the Ukip MEP’s, earning £78,000 a year and set monthly expenses allowances of £3,5000 each, WITH THE WORSE PARTY ATTENDANCE RECORD in the EU. So why should Farage’s Ukip care if we leave soon, when it gives them more PAID time via future elections and by-elections to get seats in Westminster?

In 2015, it is a FACT that either the Conservative or the Labour Party will form the next government and as Labour have a significant boundary advantage over the Conservatives, what would this mean?

Vote Ukip get Labour; with near open door immigration to both EU and NON EU citizens, rather than the Conservatives who brought back NON EU immigration back to 1990’s levels - but saw a trending increase in EU citizens from the more ‘mature’ EU countries, currently attracted to the UK’s new jobs recovery, as the strongest economy within Europe.

Vote Ukip get Labour; and the EU Brown signed us up to without a UK Referendum, Miliband refuses to offer, Farage obtaining has never been able to offer (and a wasted vote as never will be able to in my lifetime) - while the Conservatives that with the majority needed in 2015, are totally committed to giving the people a ‘YES/NO’ Referendum in 2017.

Vote Ukip get Labour; on Human Right Act signed up by Blair after the Conservatives left office in 1998, whose constant interference in domestic ‘rights’ is left open to UK judges interpretation, which often means ‘the wrong sort of rights’ are being protected e.g. criminals/suspected terrorists, , so we need a British Bill of Rights the Conservatives wanted for years, held back by a Coalition partner forced upon them by Ukip voters in 2010.

Vote Ukip get Labour; who say manufacturing trend down from 23% to 12% of our economy and on trade, saa no further than trading within the EU member states - instead of encouraging the private sector to grow businesses and jobs to trade with the world - which is why in 2010, we were doing more trade with Ireland, than with the 2.4 billion citizens within the ‘emerged’ nations of Brazil, Russia, India and China.

Vote Ukip get Labour; who pathetically offer apprenticeships, but still only know how to grow the government/public sector and their penal taxes to finance fat quango government/waste, rather than the Conservatives who know how to keep government ‘lean’ and use that money to stimulate the private sector that provides sustainable investment/jobs, as evidenced by over 1.8 million new jobs since 2010.

Vote Ukip get Labour; who’s education direction over 13-years did not prepare our children academically and ready for work, which is why when Brown was boasting record employment and 2.5 million new citizens came to the UK to work - in 2004 there were 580,000 unemployed 16-24 year olds, by pre crash 2007 it had risen to 711,000 unemployed, and when Labour finally passed over 921,000 unemployed to the coalition in 2010, the Coalition had a broken and unbalanced economy with an annual £157 billion deficit/overspend, to reverse that trend.

Vote Ukip get Labour; on the NHS, a ministerial budget they refused to ‘ring fence’ in 2010 when due to immigration, the birth rate, an older population, the increased DEMAND was to add many tens of millions more GP appointment requests and A&E visits onto the system. Furthermore Labour says they won’t privatize the NHS, their record on incompetent use of private companies speaks for itself e.g. Private Finance Initiatives, the total value of the NHS buildings built by Labour under the scheme was £11.4 billion but the bill with additional services will come to more than £70 billion on current projections and will not be paid off until 2049.

Vote Ukip get Labour; on Housing/Social Housing that despite 2.5 million new citizens in the UK during a tax growth ‘boom’, overall there were the lowest peace time new builds since the 1920’s. And according to Shelter, from 1998 to 2007 the number of Social Homes declined by a net 10% to 3.8 million, yet at the end of March 2008, there were 5 million people within 1.77 million households on local authority housing registers (or housing waiting lists) for the allocation of a social home - just as we were entered the economic ‘bust’.

Finally on housing, a Ukip enabled 2015 Labour win, constantly threatening the private sector with new state controls and taxes, will frighten away the prospects of new investment, not attract it – which makes any new housing figures they quote are as meaningless as their last record in government, when in the early years the private sector trusted them.

”General Election 2010: Ukip challenge 'cost Tories a Commons majority”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/7693877/General-Election-2010-Ukip-challenge-cost-Tories-a-Commons-majority.html
“Analysis of results shows that in at least 21 key marginal seats, Ukip’s share of the vote proved enough to allow Labour or the Lib Dems to see off strong Tory challenges.”

OP posts:
claig · 08/10/2014 08:12

Do you not wish to be free?
Will you forever doff your cap to a Tory?
Get up off bended knee,
Join the people and tear up your fee
Paid to you by an Oxbridge PPE

claig · 08/10/2014 08:37

The progressove politically correct elite can't believe what is happening. They lied, lectured and spun us for years as they invited all their chums onto our TV. "Climate catastrophe" they cried, but everybody in the street knew how they lied. Their concerns weren't ours, their lectures fell on deaf ears, their progressive priorities were out of touch with the people. Now the chickens are coming home to roost, their lies and spin have all been juiced.

Here is the thinking of Simon Heffer, an old school Tory, who is just as much in tune wth the people as a deprived teenager on a run-down council estate. Everybody feels the same, everybody knows the truth and nobody believes the elite anymore.

"The fact is that the country is crying out for an end to the stranglehold that callow young men with degrees in politics, philosophy and economics from Oxford, and early careers as special advisers to cabinet ministers, have on our government.

There is a growing sense that we are living in an age where there is widespread public disrespect for pygmy politicians. This is because too many of those who claim to represent us do nothing of the sort, because they have no idea how life is for millions of people.

A rarefied education is compounded by the fact that they have usually done no more with that privilege than use it to worm their way up the greasy pole of Westminster.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2784353/A-real-human-I-vote-Alan-Johnson-s-memoirs-reveal-deeply-principled-working-class-hero.html

There is panic in the air in progressive circles, the metropolitan elite is in a muddle, all their best spinners can't turn this round, all their prattling patter is unsound.

"The death of the Left in British politics cannot be ruled out

Labour and the Lib Dems could face years in the wilderness as the status quo splinters"
...
Like guests at the last party on the Titanic, the Lib Dem faithful seem oblivious to impending disaster. ... Today they cruise towards an iceberg now looming on the radar of every pollster.
...
Mr Clegg will have the small consolation of knowing that he is not the only leader to preside over a shipwreck. Ed Miliband’s dismal conference performance has catalysed Labour’s self-doubt into panic
...
Is Britain staring at the death of the Left? That doomsday scenario cannot be ruled out. If Labour’s attempt to resurrect itself in one parliament proves to have been a dead cat bounce, then the party may face years in the wilderness. For the Lib Dems, the future could be even bleaker. Liberal England died a strange death in the last century. Once again the grave-diggers are standing by.
...
The law of politics decrees that if one major party is up, the other is down. This time, everyone is flat-lining. When the conference season closes today, it will seem as if the curtain has fallen on the final act of a Shakespearian tragedy in which the bodies littering the stage have proved too puny to withstand the forces of the age.

From globalisation to an ageing population and from climate change to the financial crash, the challenges of the 21st century have produced small and defensive politicians whose obsession with deficit reduction has bled into a reductionism of the spirit, of endeavour, of patriotism, pride and citizenship. That wasteland is the territory that Mr Farage now seeks to colonise not only in Tory England but in the Labour heartlands."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11146579/The-death-of-the-Left-in-British-politics-cannot-be-ruled-out.html

Mary Riddell is wrong in the last paragraph. The truth is that the people have seen through all the lies.

"With the monoliths of control crumbling, the powerless are seizing power. If Ukip commands a large percentage of the popular vote but only a handful of seats, then our outmoded first-past-the-post system may have to go. Some Lib Dem MPs now say openly that they would campaign with future Ukip MPs for proportional representation."

claig · 08/10/2014 08:47

The best insights come from ordinary people, not the pampered progressive spinners and newspaper opinion forming elite

Here is a good Sky video report of people in the street in Clacton.

One woman's answer sums it up so well when asked about Carswell

"But he was a Tory then?" says he reporter

"I know, but he's come out of it, and he's working for us now. Don't make arguments, I'm going UKIP and that's it" she says.

news.sky.com/story/1349109/ukip-on-course-to-bruise-labour-and-tories

This is the beginning of a sea change in British politics, the people won't be put back in their box. It is not going to happen overnight, the PPEs and spinners will still cling on, but there is no doubt that change will eventually come. Things will never be the same again.

Isitmebut · 08/10/2014 11:42

Claig …. All that shows is that Ukipper propaganda is working, that somehow Ukip can magic solutions to their problems, how disingenuous is that in the name of ‘change’?

Voting Ukip will ensure with a Labour government only needing 31% of the vote in 2015 to form the next government, STAYS in the EU – just as our CURRENT economic success versus Europe, ENSURES a larger flow of EU economic migrants to the UK for years to come.

Ukip Carswell has promised more GP’s, but THE PROBLEM has been the increased demand on our NHS and GP’s taking several years to qualify, cannot be trained fast enough - throwing money at it is no current answer.

Yet as Carswell KNOWS, our NHS has already come under so much pressure from the several million more users ALREADY HERE i.e. 90 million more GP appointment requests and overspill to A&E, we spending £12 billion more since 2010 are struggling to cope, as those European countries in economic and debt dire straights i.e. Spain, Portugal and Greece, have seen THEIR NHS BUDGETS SLASHED by 3% to 17%.

Ukip in it’s claim for ‘change’, will just ensure a Labour government in 2015, the Uk remaining within the EU as migrant flows increase, another economic slump, which with our debt levels will CUT services spending and put up taxes substantially, FOR WHAT IN RETURN???

OP posts:
AbbieHoffmansAfro · 08/10/2014 11:45

Policies matter, Isitmebut is right.

What is UKIP going to do with all this power they are apparently going to get?
Yes yes, leave the EU, but what else?

What's the plan?