Conservative Carswell defects to UKIP

[Isitmebut]

Modernizer Carwell won the new Clacton seat in 2010 with a large majority, heavily influenced by Ukip deciding not to stand a candidate themselves – so he has found a natural home with those that have a totally anti EU stance, but seems to forget that Ukip without a parliamentary majority cannot change British law to bring us out.

Claig …… after all your rants about right wing ‘modernizers’, you now own another one – so time for you to ‘jump’ the other way? lol

P.S. His defection was hardly cold, but by 1.30pm Wikipedia had been changed to reflect his defection. Who do you think was in a hurry to reflect his move, Ukip or the Conservatives? lol

'What is UKIP going to do with all this power they are apparently going to get?'

They are going to make history. They are going to give power to the people via direct democracy. They will deliver proportional representation for the people.

UKIP is evolving, UKIP is changing because it is a grassroots movement of ordinary people. Its policies will change and adapt, "drivel" will be dropped, direct demoracy will reign.

But at the core it will never change. Its goal is to give representation to the people, sovereignty to the people, democracy to the people. No more will an elite be able to use the media to push through policies that the people do not agree with.

We live in one of the richest countries in the world. The state of Jaywick is a national scandal. The lack of investment, the lack of jobs, the lack of hope is a national scandal.

As the man in Jaywick said in John Harris's excellent Guradian video

"They don't give a monkey's what happens down here"

It is time for the people to have a voice, not the PPEs.

Farage will withdraw us from Europe. We will bring down the Empire and restore democracy. There will be no war with Russia under Farage. There will be no more puppets or "political pygmies" as Simon Heffer referred to them.

Our taxpayer money will not be wasted. We won't need to spend £75 a night for a hospital bed, we won't need to pay green taxes for our energy or subsidise the aristocracy for their windfarms.

The people's money will be spent on the people. The politicians will work for us, not for lobbyists. As the woman in the street in Clacton said

"I know, but he came out of it, and he's working for us now"

They will work for us and the policies will be good for us.

Where there's a will, there's a way. Vote UKIP for a brighter day.

Abbie ... re my last post, Ukip votes mean the UK STAYS IN the EU and the pressure that puts on our services, like the NHS, as more economic EU migrants migrate to our economic success.

Ukip votes means a clueless Labour Party from 2015 will take our economy down to European slump levels, so there will be MORE taxes and LESS money on services, as our £1.4 trillion debt piles up for our grandchildrens grandchildren pile up.

Claig ... the UK has what, a £800 billion a year economy, possibly more, what the hell are your cheap little soundbites going to do for this country, you talk chump change.

In 2015 it is Labour or the Conservatives, all Ukip's 4-15 MP's will do is ensure it is Labour, to handle the near £100 bil annual deficit, they had no idea what to do with when in 2010 it was a £157 billion overspend.

What Ukip tomfuckery magic is it to say 'we will give the people democracy how to spend the MONEY WE HAVE NOT GOT'????

There is no history to be made in Clacton, Ukip kept coming second in by-elections as the 'protest vote' now the Lib Dems are in government, so you then bought a Conservative (Carswell) with the promise of being Ukip's Deputy Leader if he wins - big fricking deal.

The United Kingdom Independence Party SHOULD 'restore democracy', by doing what they say on the can, trying their best to ensure 'the people' have a say on an EU exit, not selling their core voters out by concentrating on Westminster power, for which they add nothing, but UK coalitions that NEXT time could mean a UK disaster.

On last Thursday night's This Week, that Ukip Chairwomen (who's expression looks like she is holding a cactus between her bum cheeks and proud to be doing so) when asked about the UK fallout due to Ukip votes, she said she didn't care, which says it all really.

Ukip votes mean the UK STAYS IN the EU

Oh, I completely get that that is the reality, I'm asking what the policies are.

And claig I am always wary of politicians who claim to have a greater ability to change things than actually exists. Or who bemoan the state of things without saying how they will alter them.

If lack of investment is a problem, how would a UKIP government encourage or bring about investment? There could be tax breaks, direct investment by central government, all kinds of things. But they have to say what there would be. Otherwise voting for them is just an emotional stab in the dark.

The problem is that because the professional politicians are so unpopular, UKIP is getting away with being amateur. People seem to find it a refreshing change, instead of a terrifying prospect.

Farage is different to the other politicians. He is not in this for himself, he is in this for the people, their sovereignty and democracy.

He will liberate the people and then he will go.

"Rampant Nigel Farage aims to destroy the Tory Party, take over a new Right-wing British political party, get Britain out of the EU - and then quit politics.
...
Farage, 50, insists he is not interested in power for himself – and by the time he turns 60, wants to have quit politics – with Britain out of the EU.

‘I will consider my job’s done and I would be very happy to hand over to people who might be very good at running the country. I’m in politics because I want to change things, not because I want a career. I don’t want to do this for ever, I don’t want to sit here in ten years’ time, I want to be doing something else by then, in the media, radio, writing, hopefully enjoying myself.’

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638377/Now-I-destroy-Tory-party-In-crowing-interview-Nigel-Farage-reveals-quit-politics-hes-got-UK-EU.html

Some Tory MPs can smell the coffee and want to jump ship, possibly with the hope that they may one day lead UKIP. But they won't.

As Farage said, it will most likely be a woman who leads UKIP when he eventually goes. It will be someone like Louise Bours, a working class woman who will do more to look after our NHS than any Labour PPE.

The Scottish independence campaigners said that the elite thought that they were "too wee, too poor and too stupid" to run Scotland. The elite think the same of the English people. But if you listen to the people in the street in Clacton, you can see that no one can pull the wool over the people's eyes.

It is not Westminster that is the problem, it is the lack of representation and the cosy chumocracy of PPEs and all the unelected lobbies.

Democratic change can fix all our problems, we can mend the democractic deficit, we can give a voice to the people of Jaywick, Clacton and everywhere else.

We can fix the country, "we're not too stupid, too poor or too wee".

'I am always wary of politicians who claim to have a greater ability to change things than actually exists'

But this is the lie that the spinners have sold us. That nothing can change, that they know best and that we are "too poor, too stupid and too wee".
Look at how the great Labour movement did change things last century and how it lifted ordinary people out of grinding poverty.

There is nothing that the British people cannot do. We have more common sense than all the spinners put together. Free the people, give them a voice, give them direct democracy and proportional representation and then let's see if they vote for the spinners or not.

Focus on core priorities, make a core plan and drive it through. Take power away from the speculators, the hedge fund managers, the bankers, the lobbyists and the puppets and give it to people at local levels. Then watch how the country grows and how hope is revived and how we "together" (as Miliband said) create a better Britain.

The spinners called UKIP nutters. They are PPEs, and we are "fruitcakes" they told us, so what do we know?

Get back in your box they told us and let us carry on handing over more power to the EU and shut up when your vacuum cleaner is banned, we're doing it for you, we're "saving the planet" for you.

They thought we were "too wee", never did they think that the good people of Clacton would shake the tree to get rid of the rotten apples, dead leaves and PPEs clinging to the tree.

Claig .... just filling up space with populist rants and 'taking away powers' of City folk etc aside, which means sweet fanny all in the real world as the Uk no longer has an effective top 10 bulge bracket Investment Bank they are all American, German, French, Japanese etc) - in answer to Abbie's smart observation and question to you, what will Ukip's amateurs achieve others can't, YOU HAVE NOTHING in reply but a dream that a gaggle of Ukip MP's will 'free people'. lol

Ukip have had ONE policy to attract voters, the taking us out of the EU they knew they could not deliver, and just as it becomes more important than ever before to HAVE an EU referendum in 2017, they now want to sell how many millions of votes over the past 20-years, down the Thames river, to get to Westminster?

Abbie mentions 'investment', well that investment needed to build homes etc has JUST emerged as businesses became more post crash confident and the tax policies put in place to encourage them - and ALL of that will either be put on hold or reduced, on the prospects and election of an anti business Labour Party, helped into power by Ukip, destroying the recovery and jobs.

So there is a HUGE economic, services, investment, jobs etc price for ALL 'the people' now and generations to come, not just those blinkered by Ukip propaganda now, for WHAT????

A country like ours, that still has the largest annual budget deficit in Europe by far, overspending by £100 billion a year JUST TO KEEP WHAT SPENDING WE HAVE - when thanks to Ukip and Labour our economy pan holes again - THE PEOPLE HAVE NO 'POWER', just ask those in Greece, with their health budgets slashed and were left begging in the streets for food.

'just filling up space with populist rants'

Do you have as little respect for the people as the PPEs do? Direct democracy and proportional representation are not "populist rants", they are the foundation of democracy and real representation of the popular will.

'Abbie's smart observation and question to you, what will Ukip's amateurs achieve others can't, YOU HAVE NOTHING in reply'

UKIP will achieve direct democracy and proportional representation. Mary Riddell said

"With the monoliths of control crumbling, the powerless are seizing power. If Ukip commands a large percentage of the popular vote but only a handful of seats, then our outmoded first-past-the-post system may have to go"

It is UKIP who have caused the monoliths' control to crumble and it is UKIP who will deliver proportional representation - not the LibDems - because it is UKIP that is the people's party, unlike the parties of the lobbyists and PPEs.

Cameron has been frightened into offering a referendum by UKIP, he is allegedly supposed to have said we have to "cut the green crap" - this from the man who hugged hoodies and huskies because a spinner told him to. It is UKIP that have caused him to stare common sense in the face and change his climate change ways, or so he says.

'A country like ours, that still has the largest annual budget deficit in Europe by far, overspending by £100 billion a year'

But that is exactly why UKIP have said they will put an end to the modernisers' extravagance in spending £11 billion or so of ring-fenced public money per year on foreign aid. UKIP says no more money to the Ethiopian Spice Girls, no more money to Columbian farmers to combat "climate catastrophe" which the modernisers and their mates say is exacerbated by cows' manure and its associated methane. UKIP says no more hugging hoodies, no more hugging huskies, no more cons, scams and spin, throw it all in the bin.

UKIP says spend our money on the people, not on politically correct PPE posturing.

UKIP says stop spending billions on EU membership and quangos and start spending them on the people.

It's just common sense and that is why the modernisers, the metropolitan elite and all their mates are terrified of the Clacton vote, because they have no answer to common sense, their spin falls flat and makes no sense. Their top thinkers and drinkers have poured over reports of the people being interviewed in the streets of Clacton and they are biting their nails, doing everything they can to get out of jail.

They know it's over, they misjudged the people, they took them for granted, they thought they were "too poor, too stupid and too wee", well sit back on Thursday, let's see.

According to you, in Farage's joined up policy thinking, Ukip wants to destroy the Conservative Party that he need to poach financial backers, sitting MP's and tax cutting policies from, by allowing the pro EU Labour and Lib Dem parties, with dodgy electoral boundaries, to remain in perpetual power. Got it.

Nothing to do with his several attempts over the years to become a Westminster MP and failed then.

So far right nationalist Ukip will cut £11 billion, less than 1% of our total spending, currently helping to fight the Big 'E' in Africa now spreading at a huge rate, to cut £100 billion of overspending, marvellous, so with that low hanging populist fruit 'plucked', what is next???

Re EU Membership savings, by Ukip votes ensuring Labour keeps us in the EU, how the hell can you quote savings from LEAVING the EU???

Many Quangos that can be cut, have been cut, the size of the Public Sector inflated by Labour by 1 million, down a few hundred thousand, the Civil Service the smallest since the 2nd world war, Councils cutting non jobs and freezing, rather than annually increasing Council Tax that paid for it - it has ALL been done by a Conservative led coalition, who needs a few MP's from Ukip, working with Labour, to follow Conservative policies???

'by allowing the pro EU Labour and Lib Dem parties, with dodgy electoral boundaries, to remain in perpetual power'

You don't understand, you stil don't see, there is no more "perpetual power" of the PPE, the people are rising and they are shaking the Establishment tree.

This is a political earthquake, we are in new territory, UKIP are charting new waters. We are heading for proportional representation and liberation of the people. People in Jaywick who have never ever voted have now registered to vote, just as they did in Scotland.

Public meetings are packed out with ordinary people thronging to hear Farage speak and say how he will change things and put things right. We are seeing a popular revolt, a citizens' uprising, everybody wants to vote, everybody wants a say, everybody wants to be heard.

It is magnificent, it is brilliant, it is democracy. The people feel they will be empowered, they feel someone at last is on their side. Everybody has hope again, everyone thinks things will get better and that is exactly why they will improve.

Old tired parties and their spinners are in panic. Their spin and lies no longer work. The people want representation, they want democracy to work.

Don't believe that the country can't be fixed. Of course it can. Common sense, something that has been missing for decades, is making a return. Money will be spent on people who need it. There will be no more waste, extravagance and no more gravy trains.

Fighting fat, inefficient, costly, red tape regulation government, full of apparatchiks and thus allowing the people to keep as much of their salaries as they can, has been a core Conservative policy since Thatcher - Farage was a Conservative, he should know, he cannot re-invent that wheel when still being done as we speak.

Vote Ukip, get Labour, so that can put all that Public Sector 'fat' back on again, as a means to 'create' jobs, putting taxes up every year to cover it.

How are UKIP going to achieve proportional representation?

'If Ukip commands a large percentage of the popular vote but only a handful of seats, then our outmoded first-past-the-post system may have to go" -
This is wishful thinking. The Libdems (and before them the Liberals) were in this position for decades - it won't happen because (a) it's not in the interests of the two big paries and (b) it's not got popular approval. In coalition, the libdems got the chance to put PR to the electorate and it was overwhelmingly rejected. I regret this, but there's absolutely no case for thinking UKIP can magically change this.

Rome was not built in a day.

The reason that Tory membersip has halved since Cameron took over and teh reason that 25-30% of Tory voters have abadoned the Tories is because they are no longer Conservative, they aren't real Conservatives - they are Blairite progressives like all the rest of the PPEs.

It's not a secret, everyone's saying it, it is so much in the open that Evan Davis interviewing Cameron on Newsnight said that some of his party think he is "not a real Conservative".

It is no use hiding your head in the sand, this is how it is.

UKIP is the beginning of a revolution in British politics. It won't happen overnight, but nothing can stop it now. People won't go back in their box and the people of Clacton will lead the way as they topple the Tories from what was once one of their safest seats.

It is going to be a bumpy road, and the path to victory and change will not be easy, but the people are now on the road to change and the won't be distracted by spin and lies.

Claig .... your Ukip 'earthquake', promising stuff you can't deliver and getting several MP's, just means a perpetual Labour government keeping the Uk in the EU, and increasing spending and debt until the IMF (Labour called out in 1976) comes back in and 'cuts' spending their way.

Public Spending is clearly so fixed, we need an extra £100 billion a year to keep it going, WHERE IS THE DEMOCRATIC WRIGGLE ROOM within?

There has been little UK 'austerity', mainly limited spending rises in key departments; Labour kept saying at PMQT the Conservatives had cut welfare for years, according to Ms Reeves AGAIN during their conference, the Coalition has spent more than £12 billion more.

A talentless bunch of Ukipper MEP's not turning up for European votes, can not out Conservative the Conservatives in running government and cutting wasting, that is what they have been doing for over 4-years while Ukippers just bitched about the other parties.

Claig .. there really is more to running a country than soundbites

'it won't happen because (a) it's not in the interests of the two big paries and (b) it's not got popular approval'

The two big parties are already discredited. They nearly lost Scotland from the United Kingdom. They have to start listening to the people, they now have no more choice or the divide between government and the governed will only grow wider and that is no good for the country or its people. A tiny clique of PPEs cannot ignore 60 million people. Change is on the cards.

Here is Paddy Ashdown who understands this crisis

"I suggest these two old leaders go away into a quiet room, these two leaders of the old parties, go away into a quiet room this afternoon and play a game of join the dots because if they don’t realise that there is something very close to a national citizens revolt against Westminster – it may be that the Scottish revolt, near revolution, may go away but I rather doubt it listening to Mr Salmond earlier on and his, in my view, entirely justifiable anger. Now join that dot with the other dot, Farage and UKIP running a campaign against Westminster and the Westminster elite and you’ve got to realise that this is a profoundly dangerous moment, a moment by the way that I’ve been warning was coming for ten years now as the gap between government and governed grew. To renege on a solemn promise like that will destroy Westminster’s legitimacy and reputation in Scotland and will do the same in England too and the consequences of that are very great."

www.libdemvoice.org/paddy-ashdown-warns-of-national-civil-revolt-as-gap-between-westminster-elite-and-people-grows-42507.html

Millions of citizens of our country are disenfranchised due to our outmoded voting system. Millions don't even bother to vote. People have lost faith in the spinners who govern us and the spinners only have about 30% of the public vote.

The only way to reinvigorate our system and restore faith is to hand power to the people. The elites won't like it. The PPE carousel will grind to a halt, the gravy train will run out of steam. But there is no alternative anymore.

Claig .... the Conservatives lost 'Membership' numbers as Ukip's Membership gained at exactly the same rate the BNP's fell, SO WHAT - look at the votes and how much of England on the 2010 General Election map is coloured blue.

Immaterial, a vote for Ukip is not a vote for a bunch of amateurs with soundbites, it is a vote for a Labour government, while your 'revolution' that happened in France in recent times via the Front National, what happened in Germany during the 1930's - is all about 'people' not feeling the monetary love from politicians, as the UK is experiencing with our deficit we are trying to grow our way out of.

Voting for Ukip and bringing back pro EU Labour to run our economy AGAIN, is not the solution for those wanting 'change', as those not yet feeling the 'growth', will soon suffer the consequencies of losing economic growth and a huge annual overspend, with widespread tax rises that Labour were planning after the 2010 General Election.

They nearly lost Scotland from the United Kingdom.

No they didn't. The referendum was won for the 'no' side with a good margin, despite the fact that - wisely - it had been conducted on the Nationalists terms, so that they couldn't come back and whine that it was rigged. Similar thing happened with the PR vote too, come to think - there's nothing like a referendum to defuse an issue.

' look at the votes and how much of England on the 2010 General Election map is coloured blue.'

You are kidding yourself. That is history. I predicted that Clacton would be landslide for UKIP right from the moment I heard that Carswell had joined UKIP, when the professionals and metropilitan elite thought the Tories still stood a chance. They don't understand the people or the popular mood.

'The referendum was won for the 'no' side with a good margin'

I think it may be a temporary victory. The younger voters will be the future and they will probably hold another referendum in years to come.

The Establishment has to allow people a greater voice. This PPE game is nearly over. People have to feel empowerd and enfranchised and hae to feel that their voice counts. UKIP is advocating local referenda. The elite don't want it because they prefer their PPEs to make all the decisions rather than the people, but they will eventually realise that greater power and representation for the people is the only way to unite the country and its regions.

'Similar thing happened with the PR vote too, come to think - there's nothing like a referendum to defuse an issue.'

It wasn't a good PR system and it wasn't publicised enough. The Tories didn't back it, but now they back greater devolution for Scotland which once they didn't. Everything is changing, and PR will change too.

The elite hoped that they could carry on with business as usual, PPE as usual, spin as usual, but that won't work anymore.

There are two by-elections this week - one near London and the other in the North, and in both areas, the Tories don't stand a chance.

Near London, UKIP will probably win a landslide - UKIP a party that was laughed at and called "fruitcakes" just one year ago, and a party that the entire metropolitan media and the Oxbridge set derided and mocked.

In the North, it is UKIP who will give Labour a run for their money, not the Tory party.

Look ahead 10 years and imagine the political scene then. UKIP won't go away, they are likely to get even stronger.

Mary Riddell writes

"Is Britain staring at the death of the Left? That doomsday scenario cannot be ruled out."

But soon, people may write, are we staring at the end of the Tory Party, the Eton crowd and the PPEs?

always look on the bright side. If ed gets in and has to deal with the screw up that the last Labour Gov left , then Ed will be the last diver Labour PM in the last diver Labour gov.

Now that's a really good thought.

Ever. Why does this daft ipad write diver?

The excellent John Harris of the Guardian once again. Harris is good, he understands the people even if he disagrees with them

"Clacton byelection: the main parties need to hear this roar of defiance

From Clacton to Strood, only Ukip seems to speak to voters who feel abandoned, patronised and ignored
...
A fortnight or so ago, as part of the campaign for this week’s Clacton byelection, Douglas Carswell and Nigel Farage addressed a public meeting. The hall where it was held is only a stone’s throw from Jaywick, the jumble of former holiday chalets and potholed streets that is reckoned to be the poorest council ward in England: on the face of it, a symbol of the kind of deep social problems that tend to be synonymous with political apathy. That night, though, about 900 people turned up.

It’s said that Farage considers it the most extraordinary meeting he’s ever experienced.
...
When politics is successful, it makes the most of this: as one of my left-wing friends is fond of pointing out, Margaret Thatcher never used a fact in her life. So it is with Ukip, and what is about to happen on the Essex coast: a great visceral roar of dissent and defiance, channelled through a party whose leader instinctively understands politics’ more emotional aspects while the people at the top of supposedly mainstream parties have no clue.

In essence, Ukip has a simple human story to tell. People feel abandoned; this new force assures them it will listen. They complain of being insulted and patronised; Ukip insists they should never apologise for who they are. Whereas modern politics is fronted by androids who talk in borderline riddles – “One nation”, “the big society” – Ukip’s thinking is presented in appetisingly straightforward terms. In other words, despite huffing and puffing about the details of Ukip policy (witness the absurd spectacle of Labour forensically tackling its views on the NHS), all that is for the birds. As far as Farage’s supporters are concerned, it’s less what he says than the way he says it.
...
In Clacton, Ukip will obviously triumph. In Heywood and Middleton, which also votes on Thursday, they claim they are going to run Labour a lot closer than people think. With more echoes of Scotland, in both places, people on the ground say that local debate is crackling with energy. As one Ukip high-up puts it: “If it matters, people vote.” As and when the writ is moved for the Rochester and Strood byelection, and the former Tory Mark Reckless prepares to meet his fate, the Tories will throw everything they’ve got at him, but a recent poll put Ukip nine points ahead. A big local factor, it seems, is lingering resentment about the demise of the Chatham dockyard, which shut 30 years ago – another example of the kind of deeply emotional politics that even Labour politicians now have difficulty understanding.

There, as elsewhere, a lot of people minded to vote for Ukip will doubtless explain their feelings in terms of a tangle of inconsistencies streaked through with undeniable truths – something illustrated by a conversation I recently had in Jaywick with a retired railwayman, lifelong trade unionist and Labour voter, who had come to the coast from his native London. “Look at us,” he said. “We’re a backwater, aren’t we? That nobody gives a shit about.”

Despite his harsh words about what Thatcher had done to the country, he said he was going to vote Ukip on Thursday. But did he really think Farage and Carswell were any different? Not for the first time, emotion trumped political logic. “I’m hoping so,” he said. “I’m hoping so.”

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/08/clacton-byelection-parties-defiance-coast-strood-ukip

Brilliant analysis. He doesn't get everything right in my opinion, but he shines a light that others fail to see.

Carswell wil never lead UKIP because Carswell does not really represent our views. He hasn't reall got he common touch. Louise Bours could run rings around him in understanding. People will vote Carswell because he is UKIP, they won't care about his books or his views.

'it’s less what he says than the way he says it'

That's it. They are on our side and the others aren't. And it is not just the left-behinds in Jaywick, but also the middle class in Frinton and the 25-30% of middle class Tories who have abandoned Cameron and his merry band of modernisers.

'another example of the kind of deeply emotional politics that even Labour politicians now have difficulty understanding'

They can't understand it because they live different lives, they were parachuted in from Oxbridge, they have not suffered what the working and middle classes have had to suffer. That is why they have no emotion and all they have left is spin.

Clegg did a very good speech today and he may have fooled some people with it. It was a good performance, but that is all it was - a good act, a rehearsed, prepared act. It wasn't from the heart, it wasn't from the gut, it was from the head, it was just spin.