I'm astonished that so many people are in favour of...

[emkana]

... smacking

good post ghosty

sorrell, he can't have casein, gluten, sweeteners, colourings and some preservatives.

They caused symptoms that resulted in him being diagnosed with ASD, but after the first six months of his controlled diet he has been NT.

can everyone click on that link by Weaselmum and then make your minds up

v sad

And also, how can I have any credibility with my son if I say to him, "You are not allowed to hit people" when he hits his sister and then give him a whack when he breaks a window/doesn't eat his dinner/won't get dressed etc etc?

a few people have asked when a child 'grows out' pf smacking?

I smacked my kids from about the gae of 2 until 4 I guess. I would also say I smacked DD1 about 8 times in this time, DD2 I only ver smacked twice.

This is becuase my kids were different (as all kids are) DD1 was harder to disipline (still is) and is a very defiant child, she would do something deleberately. Naughty step and such like didn't work as she didn't understand them, she understood the smack.

DD2 is a different child altogether and is much softer and much better behaved. You only have to tell her off and talk to her to get geuine remorse.

Overall smacking did work in our family for a short time, I don't do it anymore - not due to social pressure etc, but punishments now are based around withdrawl of privileges, something that an averahge 3 year old doesn't get. We also do the step.

I do believe it can be used successfulky as a method of disipline, I am not getting into to legalise of 'children are teh only ones who are legally allowed to be smacked' etc. They are children and we have the responsibility to do as we see fit on most things, take food as an example. How many people on MN suggest a child should eat what theya re given and should be 'forced' to eat veg?? How many peole suggest a child should not be given any snacks if they didn't eat dinner - thus sending that child to bed hungry in order to 'teach' it to like a particular food?? Which is worse, no food? a light smack? Oooh surely the no food thing could escalate into serious abuse!!!!

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I think your posts are very interesting ghosty - in so much as you have changed your mind rather than being set from the outset as many people who don't like smacking are.

It is interesting that the list of other things that your parents did, no car seats, smoking whilst pregnant etc are now judged by the standards of this age but we mostly understand that things weren't the same back then! With smacking though, I have never been able to give the same grace, unfortunately.

Whenever I think about my childhood, I think that they were intelligent people and they should have thought about it and they should not have gone with the flow! What were they thinking! How could they have done it?????

And I suppose I am (in a more judgemental way is usual for me) applying that to most people who smack today!

I hope that in the fullness of time it smacking will become ever more socially unacceptable - after all most children wear seatbelts and have car chairs these days and most mums don't smoke while pregnant. Maybe in time most people won't smack!

fondant4000 i dont know where you live and who you know but!!!!!!?
Most of my friends will have used smacking - not below 3 years and rarely over 10-11 but in the middle.
Most of my friends are lovely people with functional families and lovely children

Soapbox ... you are right re. the fullness of time. I think our parents generation just didn't question stuff - for example my mother will tell me, "We didn't have childcare books in our day, we just got on with it the best way we knew how" ... my parents were and still are of the generation that say, we are adults and you are children and this is how it always was and how it will always be.
Our generation question things so much more. And rightly too IMO.
I didn't go into parenting thinking, "I will smack" ... I didn't think about it - how could I make that decision about a new baby that I held in my arms? But when DS was older (probably around 3 or 4) and going through some fantastically difficult stage (he by-passed the 2 year old tantrums but hit them later) I smacked him because of being at the end of my tether and as crunchie and cod say, unable to reason with. But smacking just didn't sit right with me - I don't know if my mother had the guilt and heartbreak when she smacked me ("That is what you did in those days") but all I know is that I just can not smack my children and feel that I have done a good parenting job. I have enough guilt without adding that into my day to day life.
Every generation sets out to change the way their parents did things - it is the way of the world. And if there is a better way to discipline children without causing them pain (and it is my belief there is) then we are the generation to find those ways and begin to build a better future for our kids.

Right, with that deep and meaningful post I am off to bed ....

NotAnOtter. I live in a multi-racial, mixed class part of London, and don't come across it often (though I understand from other posters that it's a discipline that's used behind closed doors). I do happen to know that the one child who was hitting my child regularly at nursery comes from a home where smacking is used.

MrsDoolittle
I am one of 4 children. None of us were ever smacked.
I'm no delinquent
I do not support war
I don't go round hitting people to solve disputes
I believe I am successful at what I do
I cherish the relationships I have with my husband, family and friends. I remain very close to my parents.
(Same goes for all my sibs)

So I can't see what the use of it is.

Atlast!

Ghosty I'm pleased that my post made you think. I really do mean to come across as smug (sorry if I do) but you have done exactly what I was trying to achieve - made you think! I think, all the time, it's a habit of mine.
I believe those are the questions you should ask yourself - everyone should. If you don't feel comfortable with your answer, then you shouldn't.

I am comfortable with my answer, so I do.

We have to do what we believe is right, otherwise how do we know?

Just because we all different perspectives on this doesn't make one of us wrong.
The fact is, we believe we are doing what is right by our children because we love them.
What more can we do?

crunchie, so me sending my 23 month old daughter to bed without dinner because she refuses to eat dinner and is asking for crisps is worse than smacking her??

I have never forced her to clear her plate or eat anything that she doesnt like but when it is clear disobediance to get her own way im not going to stand for it, therefore food is taken away, how could smacking solve this problem?

I am not however against all smacking, my dd from quite a young age has had a tapped hand when doing something dangerous (ie. touching a hot oven, fingers near plug sockets) as shouting or talking wuold not get the quick reaction needed. i have also smacked her once on the bum, i was 4 month pg and she was kicking me in the stomach while i was trying to change her bum, it made me feel awful and just made her tantrum escalate. i lost control, i know that and she knows that, i have vowed i wont do that again, it doesnt work and isnt neccesary!

fondant4000.
Have I ever suggested someone else should smack their children? Sorry if I am misreading you.

Have I ever said anything other than try and explain my own reasons for smacking?

The thing is Mrs Dolittle, do you smack your child and feel that you have done a good job? Although rarely one to judge people's parenting practices I do question how people can actually feel they have done something positive for their child after they have smacked them? Like I say, I didn't think about it until I was a parent - I don't think I had an opinion either way (was too busy being young and carefree to think about smacking any children I may have). I came to the conclusion that smacking wasn't a good thing when I did it and felt terrible for doing it.

yes, it is the "smacking & I'm proud/happy/think its right" attitude that I struggle with too. None of us is perfect - that's impossible. I just find it hard to come to terms with the idea that smacking is part of a good or even satisfactory discipline strategy/technique.

Findant, please don't start down the line of 'if you smack then your child is morelikely to hit'. It's simply wrong. The only child I know who has a 'problem' with hitting comes from a no-smacking home, but I believe her problem stems from the fact her parents do not use any form of effective discipline, not because they do/do not smack.

sorry, 'fondant'.

liquidclocks, i think you're quite right, children need some sort of discipline wether that be smacking (controlled not full out beating) or another method, surely its better than none if it works in your family.

But that's just it. I don't like the 'I smack and I'm proud' attitude either.

I smack dd because it's short and sharp (ds is 7 months and definitely too young IMHO). She is warned 3 times to stop or do whatever she is doing, at 2.5 she is usually testing me. I smack her, we fall out and we make up. Dd is happy again, we both are.
I honestly believe I am doing what is right for us.
Dh doesn't like smacking her, he usually tell her he won't read her a story. Dd will whinge and whinge and whine, she won't do anything different. This is part of dh'd relationship with dd, it's what he does. I don't interfere. For me I would rather get it over and done with, I can't stand the whinging and whining it just makes me angry and resentful and I expect that's how she feels about it too.
As I said, I spend far too much time thinking and I can be prone to letting things fester. Incidently, this is why I would never send dd to her room because I would expect if she's anything like me it would give her too much time to get angry.
Am I explaining myself here?

i don't because its illogical for me to smack and tell ds (3) not to hit his friends/mummy/daddy because its not a nice thing to do and upsets people.

Just like I don't ask him not to throw food on the floor when he doesn't like it and then do it myself. I can't see how using even mild violence helps a child understand that violence is wrong.

I think you are projecting your thoughts and feelings onto your child Mrs D. The reality is that you do not know how she reacts inwardly to either form of punishment!

If whining is a problem then you need to address that - but it doesn't automatically follow that smacking is the answer!

Surely whatever choice people make with their own children is up to them?

Damn, batters beat me to it