I'm astonished that so many people are in favour of...

[emkana]

... smacking

ok - liquidclocks post
liquidclocks on Wednesday, 20 September, 2006 10:04:35
I don't push my parenting views on others thanks very much. I only commented on my views on smacking after others jumped on here to say it was a wonderful thing.

Why couldn't you say 'I know many people who smack (myself included) and do not think this number is shocking'

NO instead several of you have to come on and say 'i'm a wonderful parent and I smack - don't victimise me'. Then anti-smackers start putting forth their views and get leaped on for saying they don't think its acceptable. Then the smackers can say poor me I've been judged and victimised.

Posts were only commenting on statistics not whether smacking was good/bad. The rest of you turned it into that.

To be honest, I really shouldn't get involved in this thread. I should be working but there is this fantastic fascination to understand other peoples reasoning, which is why I keep coming back.
Noone is going to make me feel guilty about how I bring up my children, if you did I think that would create the most awful insecurity which to be honest I feel is far more damaging to children.

My thoughts on this are the same as everything, be it bottle v breastfeeding, cs v vaginal delivery, 'she-who-must-not-be-named' v Penelope Leach, essentially good parents (and we must believe society is largely good)wnat what is best for their children. Noone can tell them what is best for their children, only they know. However, our duty to each other is to give the support and confidence to new parents asking questions to believe in themselves. Offer resources, places to find information, a shoulder to cry on but NEVER tell them.

JARM - before asking other people to suggest other forms of punishment that WORK, then I think I'd want a proper discussion of whether smacking WORKS!

I often read the threads on MN from those that are at the end of their wits and they inevitable contain the 'I've smacked and it makes no difference to them - they still carry on misbehaving'!

At school when corporal punishment was pretty damned vicious - it was the same unfortunate few who were belted time after time after bloody time!

It doesn't work - that's why most of us have moved on to finding other more effective forms of behaviour management! God it takes time, and effort, lots of it and patience and tolerance in spadefuls.

But what method of solving problems do I want to pass onto my children - the short sharp highly ineffective way, or a patient tolerant but largely effective long term approach!

I am totally opposed to physical punishment - it is barbaric and totally unnecessary. It is perfectly possible to bring up nice, well mannered children with out it!

ilovecaboose - are you surprsied at the way this thread is going?

I spend far too much time on this forum . Same goes for some others

The trick is, not to let it offend you. Or PARP!

sadly enough I am surprised at the way this is going. I was looking forward to a nice chat about statistics and ratios of those who do smack versus those who don't rather than whether or not smacking is a terrible thing.

Anyway yes PARP I really have to go and do some work (got some 17th Century childrearing manuals to read).

Ah, see I was hit as a child, quite a lot. My parents were always calm when they did it, not angry. They never hit hard enough to leave a mark. They weren't abusive parents by the standards of their place and time.

I think the "not losing control" thing is a bit irrelevant. Imagine we lived in a time (not long ago!) when it was socially and legally acceptable for our husbands/partners to hit us. Would it be worse if your DH/DP lost his temper and smacked you? Or if he calmly decided to hit you, for whateve reason?

I stand by my last post. If it didn't work I wouldn't use it.

And another thing, does that mean all of you who are opposed to smacking think that my children will grow up to hit other people, support war, and become delinquents because I smack them?
Do you honestly believe it's will ruin my relationship with my children?

I don't. Really I don't. If I thought for just one second it would damage my children and their perception of what is right in the world, there is no way I would smack them. But that is for me to decide, not anyone else.

Oh, and in my parents' case, hitting did not work. Because they ended up doing it at least once per week .

well, what would you like to discuss iloveacaboose? The article is very short. We don't know what the questions were. I'm amused that people are worried about teenage violence & unruliness & think that smacking kids is the answer!! That makes alot of sense.

Mrs Doolittle

see this

Mrs Doolittle, it is probably very unlikely that the odd smack is damaging to a child in a warm, loving family relationship. I don't know this, I can't prove it. However, the fact that an occasional smack may not be harmful does not necessarily mean it is good parenting or the only thing that will work.

MrsD - I honestly cannot say what it will do to your relationship with your children.

What I can say is that it certainly did nothing to help my relationship with my parents! And that was in a time when it was far more socially acceptable than it is now!

I personally wouldn't take the risk - family relationships are precarious things at the best of times, why add to the risk of them going wrong!

That link is brilliant WeaselMum, I have kept a copy and it says everything that needs to be said.

It says exactly the things my mum told me about smacking.

But do you get on with your parents NotQuiteCockney?
And if not, is that just because the smacked you?

I get the impression to those of you who oppose smacking that you think those of us that do are non-reflective? Maybe I'm wrong, please correct me. I'm not jumping at anyone, I'm just trying to understand.

I don't get it, really I don't. I was one of four children and we were all smacked.
I'm no delinquent
I do not support war
I don't go round hitting people to solve disputes
I believe I am successful at what I do
I cherish the relationships I have with my husband, family and friends. I remain very close to my parents. (Infact dm can guilt trip me which I think is worse than any kind of smack she could give)
We were smacked, although I remember it stopped in the end because we laughed and different punishments were used.
I mean it is social conditioning, I know it is. But for me it really has done me no harm. Honestly why would I change it??

they ae discussing this on this morning soon.....

I read the initial posts and went shopping but came back to ask the exact same questions as Weaselmum;
When is your child old enough?
When are they too old?

I don't smack, nor will I. My parents didn't (despite me being the age when apparently"everyone"was smacked.
DP was smacked as a child, which he believes made his behaviour worse, and he would not do it to his kids.

I am not shocked at those statistics. I believe I am in a minority in my circle of friends regarding this.

I love the idea expressed on here that hitting people teaches them to love you. I think men used to say that about their wives. The sooner smacking is made a criminal offence the better. Then people would have to be less lazy in their parenting.

My mom is dead, but no, I didn't get on with them that well, anyway. The smacking is part of it, I think. To be fair, I didn't get on with them that well when I was a kid, either. (Again, the smacking may well have been part of that.)

but Mrs Doolittle, why would you do it or recommend it as a parenting tool?
We all get the point that you are not some wrathful, stick wielding harridan, but what some of us are trying to say is that smacking is not necessary. I can completely understand that people do it (even though I don't understand why), what I can't understand is why anyone would advocate it as a discipline technique.

I don't want my children to hit other people (children or adults)

I want my children to learn how to use words - in good and bad situations, to make themselves understood.

Hitting someone you don't know in the street counts as assault (whether they've done somehting "naughty" or not) - so why doesn't hitting your own children get treated in the same manner?

And, well, hitting just isn't very nice, is it?

sorrell - I'm sorry if you get the impression that smacking children teaches them to love you. If I have given you that idea I haven't made myself clear enough.

I don't know why anyone thinks that smacking dominates my relationship with my children.

Neither would I ever smack my children and leave it like that. I don't want to leave my children feeling angry towards me the same as any other parent.

I am finding this thread fascinating but I have to go and do some work.

Not surprised at the stats given at all. The phrasing of the questions in polls like this is so important - not wanting an out right ban on smacking does not mean you support beating the crap out of kids.

Discipline is different for every adult, every child. Smacking would never work with some kids, discussion and naughty steps would never work with others.

I was smacked. Can only recall 2 occasions (aged approx 5 and 7) both of which involved seriously bad behaviour on my part (setting fire to the living room - hmm, how do you discuss that with a 5 yr old?)

I have smacked DS1 once, DS2 never (so far). The discussions go on before hand and smacking is a last resort after every other method of punishment has failed but the (seriously) bad behaviour is still repeated.

I have never smacked my eldest son.

My youngest son used to have extremely challenging behaviour, and I have smacked him on three separate occasions.
I smacked him because he was angry and out of control, and I did not know what else to do to try and get him to stop.

We subsequently found out that he has various allergies that profoundly affect his behaviour, his awareness of his actions, and his reasoning abilities.
The allergies were making him ill, and I smacked him because I didn't know.

That guilt is something I will have to live with for the rest of my life.
I have not smacked either of my children since then, and I hope I never will.

I deeply regret the times that I smacked my son.

Slightly off topic, but I am also very thankful that corporal punishment has been banned in schools, because I know without a shadow of a doubt that it would have been used on my son - and that is terrifying. I shudder when I think how many children with genuine behavioural difficulties must have been beaten at school in the past.

Re the article in the OP: 'Many adults were concerned about violence and unruly behaviour among teenagers in public and were worried that a ban on smacking would erode discipline further'.

There is clearly a genuine concern in society about discipline, but I think this would be solved by fostering respect for one another. Smacking does not make people behave any better IME.

I normally steer clear of these threads - they do my head in ...
But here is my 2ps worth ...
I, like MrsDoolittle, am one of 4 and I was smacked. I am no delinquent and am a peaceloving anti war type too. I have a loving, close bond with both my parents. I do not have anything against them for smacking me. Why would I?

HOWEVER .... MrsDL's last sentence made me think. "Why change it?"

Why would I smack my children just because my parents smacked me and it did me no harm? My parents didn't put me in a car seat and it did me no harm. My mother smoked when she was pregnant and it did me no harm ....

I have smacked my son. I have never smacked my daughter. The reason I never smack either of them is because on the few occasions I smacked DS I felt like SHIT. It didn't fix the problem ... I didn't walk away thinking "There, that sorted that out!" I sat there with a breaking heart and a son who looked at me with a look of "Why would you do that?" on his face. Smacking him serves no positive purpose AT ALL - yes, at least once a day I want to throttle him ... he drives me nuts .... but I don't see the point in doing something that makes us both feel terrible.

HC, which allergies did your son have btw? I found your post very interesting. And agree how brutalised children with undiagnosed difficulties must have been in schools when corporal punishment was legal.