I'm astonished that so many people are in favour of...

[emkana]

... smacking

Totally agree Kittywits. Verbal and mental cruelty can be far more damaging than a short sharp sting on the back of the legs. The things I feel damaged me as a child and teenager were verbal comments and put downs, not the odd smack I got when I was naughty as a child.

On the subject of making smacking illegal, it would just mean that parents such as ourselves couldn't have this honest debate.

Well they would have to make it illegal to verbally abuse and emotionally abuse a child. Good God, smacking is not as bad as the awful, awful naughty step. How on earth can that be an ok thing to do to a child?

I just love the way that the smacking brigade try to justify what they do, by insinuating that the anti-smackers must use verbal and mental abuse to control their children instead of smacking!

It is the abhorrance of bullying and intimidating behaviour that turns off most anti-smackers from smacking. Why on earth would they replace it by something just as bad???

I have nowt to add, am shouting support from the sidelines, really.

I really dont have anything to add apart from i hope we are all sensible enough to know what abuse really is and sensible discipline is not abuse

Agree, Soapy.

I said earlier on the thread how I felt about the naughty step, btw. I don't use it.

Well said soapy!

not sure if this has been said yet...
But my worry with being legally allowed to smack is that although most of you will know that a smack is not meant to really hurt, there are an incredible number of parents out there that simply don't know what is acceptable.

I have seen them myself in the supermarket and it makes my blood run cold;

an inquisitive toddler -being a toddler- reaches out and picks something off the shelf and the mother lashes out an attack on the child because she is fed up with putting the items back;

or in the queue for the bank and I hear behind me 'if you ask me one more time you will get a smack'

In public they feel that that is acceptable so it makes me worry about those children when behind closed doors.

I personally don't smack my children as I am fortunate enough to have never needed to. It makes it dificult for me to understand in that case why anyone would feel that they need to. I am no parenting expert and I have certainly been wound up to oblivion by my kids before but I have managed for 7 years to not need to smack and that pleases me.

Sorry if that last bit sounded a bit off- I'm not judgeing anyone here, I just wanted to say my bit.

very true

I think the problem I have is not the fact that the child is profoundly affected by it nor that it hurts in a lot of cases I just don't understand why it is seen as ok for someone a lot bigger to physically reprimand someone smaller and tbh don't understand why you would want to hurt your own child in that way however light the tap etc etc My ds is 12 and has never been smacked or verbally abused naughty step etc but when he has really played me up i have often walked away for 5 minutes and the situation has diffused

What I was saying soapy is that no one has the right to judge anyone else's parenting techniques.
No one has the right to point the finger and make assumptions about other people based on absolute scang and minimal evidence and information. Thankyou poppet sees something in a shop and makes sweeping statements and draws spurious conclusions.
The supercilious and holier than thou nature of these comments does really amuse me though.

We all do things wrong, smackers or non smackers. We WILL adversly affect our children in ways that most of us cannot forsee and by using parenting methods that we consider perfectly acceptable.
How about we start a thread about non smacking parenting techniques and see how we can pull these to pieces? What's the point?

We are all doing what we consider to be right and we are all trying our best.
Those in glass houses.......

mean scant.

No one here is any better than anybody else and no one has the right to make comments and draw banal conclusions about somwboady else's life when they know absolutely nothing about it.

disagree with you there, kitty

I reckon there are things we can do to our kids that are more damaging than others

and, as a parent, i want to work out what they are so i can avoid them

And some parents do things which are so far from being a good thing that social services end up being involved.

What would people have said if poppet had overheard the same conversation aimed at an adult with learning disabilities, by their carer? (I hope to f'ck I know the answer here)

actually kitty I am not making sweeping statements at all. I have seen these families in their own homes whilst at work -they do beleive that it is acceptable to smack a child if the child is annoying them -even in front of health proffesionals, and I have seen the end results of what some people firmly beleive is just a smack. very worrying.
It IS abuse in some cases, and is a very real problem. I have said I am not judgeing anyone on here but I was hoping that some of the pro-smackers would agree that there is a definate problem with the law allowing smacking to do with the interpretation of that law.
Some people do not know the limits.

not holier than tho, no. just pleased with myself.

agree with the overhearing filly,

or what about if between two adults? -there is a public disorder law to protect adults in same situation.

also an assult law for adults. even if it is just a smack.

So there's no such thing as bad parents then Kittywits

Sometimes I think you need to get out of your gilded palace and spend some time in the real world!

Honestly, you really are totally ignorant of life around you!

And this no-one has the right to judge malarky. I will say it once again, very simply for those that seem to have trouble grasping the concept of judging!

I already have the right to judge other people - unless you are going to somehow police my brain, you cannot stop me judging other people. We do it all the time - all of us! Sometimes those judgements are fair, often they are not - but we do do it and to pretend otherwise is silly.

And Kittywits for you to talk about the right to judge is rather amusing!

I completely agree that physical abuse goes on and it is awful and those children should be protected. However, people like myself who occasinally smack cannot be put in the same category, yet on these threads we often are.

I agree with you also Filly. As I said as loving, caring parents we all do our best for our children. Now what we all consider to be best is different. I can say I think what X does is better than what Y does. It does not however mean that I have right on my side. It is only my opinion, not the truth. It is not right, nor is it wrong.

I hate the naughty step and can't bear to watch suppernanny. Its so painfull. I have smacked once or twice because I'm programmed to from my own childhood. Parenting well is such a subtle skillfull art that it takes time and experience to master. Its the biggest challenge of my life and most rewarding one too. I think the context of a smack is key and if a parent is conscientious and loving its not abusive even if its not the best tactic.
But people who use their children as a punchbag to let off steam, how do you stop that happening???

yes I do judge soapbox, like amny others. i am not saying that I am right to do so, any more than anyone else here.

Please can you cut and paste the words YOU have read which has lead YOU to understand that I have said there is no such thing as a bad parent.
I suspect you are being you usual obstreperous self though and are rising against me simply because you have a personel problem with me. It has nothing to do with what I say on any subject. You will accuse me of saying something is black when I have very clearly called it white, just because it is me.

You have obviously met me, seen where I live and how my life runs in order to make such assertive statements. Either that or you are simply rude.

The reason I don't smack DS has very little to do with being worried about his emotional health, and everything to do with me having no clue as to how it would teach him anything. I would honestly like to know how smacking is supposed to work as a 'discipline' technique. I can explain how Time Out is SUPPOSED to work, I can explain how accepting the natural consequences of actions is supposed to work, and I can explain how encouraging good behaviour and ignoring bad is supposed to work, but smacking - nope - its beyond me.

kitty I'm not putting you into any catagory. If you are confident that your smacking is not abuse then you should be able to enter into a discussion about people who smack that are doing more than just that (unknowingly) without being defensive. do you agree that the law issue is tricky due to interpretation? or would you argue that it protects children perfectly well?

Also soapnox I have tried to made kind statements about how we here are all trying to do the best job we can. Perhaps there are indeed child abysers lurking on MN. I am chosing to hope that those people that post here are trying their best.
I am glad that it is not in my nature to go on the attack and be as aggresive as you.

KW - you are right! I think I will revert to my usual practice of ignoring people who I find tiresome!

Thankyoupoppet, yes I think the law issue is very tricky. I think it is very important to protect our children from abuse. But it is an almost impossible thing to do. If you banned smacking then in order to protect those children who are beaten up by their parents and carers I doubt wheter it would make much difference. Those adults who are abusive parents will still find ways to be abusive parents. They will simply use other methods, don't you think?

I also have a problem with dictatorial governments constantly curtailing our freedoms and always 'knowing better'.