I'm astonished that so many people are in favour of...

[emkana]

... smacking

DH and I watched parts of the programme last night.

We commented that it somehow seems worse for a father to smack a child than a mother. Neither of us could really rationalise why we felt like this.

DH has never smacked either of our children.

I explained in a previous thread that I smacked DS2 a few (3 or 4) times when he was much younger, and now regret it dreadfully.

I do know for a fact that I would not stand by and watch whilst my DH smacked one of our children though.

I really felt I wanted that mother to defend her child when her husband swore at him and smacked his legs at the dinner table.

I found that aspect of the programme last night very disturbing.

Soapbox - no, I did read those. They gave some children's reaction to being smacked. And if I remember correctly those were subject to quite severe punishment over a prolonged period of time. As a smacked child I gave my reaction to reasonably mild and occasional smacking - which I beleive it just as valid?

J - no I don't believe so - think it was just a random selection of children who had been smacked.

Well I've just scanned the thread and I would say that for each severely traumatised child there are at least as many who feel Ok about it. And that includes me. Or perhaps I'm in denial?????

Another smacking thread EH? I didn't watch the programme because it was only shown to be sensationalist. I smack when I deem it necessary, so what?

Joelallie- the risk is though that your DCs don't see it how you do isn't it!

There are plenty people who have posted on this thread saying that they have issues with their parents because they were smacked. When there are other perfectly good alternatives, why risk it?

I'm not arguing about that basic premise Soapbox - I don't personally advocate smacking as a method of discplining kids - all I was pointing out was that perhaps the argument is spoilt by over-emotionalising it sometimes. It isn't quite as simple as big scary people beating up little frightened people and leaving them damaged and traumatise. Not many things are that simple

I agree Joelallie (we actaully agree on a lot of things,including encouraging children's independence from a young age ).

I was smacked when I was young - very infrequently and yet do not feel traumatised by that. Am I yet another one whose experience will be discounted? Is it to be assumed that all children who were smacked are traumatised, despited statements to the contrary?

I can remember far more clearly other "punishments", such as not being allowed to go to a ballet class because I had done/not done something or other (can still remember the inustice of that one - even if I can't remember why it happened). In fact, I can't actually remember a single smack - altohugh I know I was.

Likewise, ds has had maybe 5 smacks - the last before the age of 4.5 ( I always knew we woud onyl use it, if appropriate, for a limited period). I guarantee that he will remember more those occasions where his bedtime has been brought forward (which yes, can mean he misses supper - but only after he has been given loads of opportuniites to behave appropriately - but was obviously too tired to do so) (and icnidentally, he is not that hungry - although he is upset - as he has had a late aftenoon snack at the out-of-school club) or where we have just been plain disappointed with him (he hates us being upset with him), or where he doesn't get to play a particular game/watch Doctor Who/play his Yu-ki-oh cards or whatver the treat would have been.

I like the distinction someone made between smacks and spanking. I think the two get confused on Mumsnet - frequently.

I also like Bloss' contribution - if only I could be succinct. I agree with all her arguments - only she no longer bother trying to explain them (although she has posted very articulately in the past). She has confidence in the way she is bringing up her kids. I have a similar approach. I have a happy, confident, well behaved ds. That is all that matter at the end of the day.

I was smacked as a child.It did not happen much and I cannot recall any one time in detail.It was a quick 'smack' and that was it. I was warned beforehand so if I got the smack then I knew it was coming! It never did me any harm and I had the most caring,loving parents you could imagine.

I have smacked my dd aged 3.A tap on the bum.Probably on about five occasions.Now, all I need to say is "I will count to 3 and on 3 I will smack your bottom" I hasten to add this is only when she is really playing up and not just 'being a 3 year old'I get to 2 and its like i have flicked a switch. She doesnt want a smack so she changes her behaviour.Its all done so quickly.No screaming child, having a hissy fit becoming distressed and unhappy. She knows where she stands with me.I love her more than life its self.We have are so close and we tell each other we love one another every day.Our house is full of kisses and laughter.
I belive that children need strong both love and discipline and by that I dont mean spending hours reasoning with them.

TBH theres too much of that in todays society.Look at schools! No discipline there either.I was caned at school and had the slipper. Now the kids run riot and are on ASBOs.

Anyhow thats just my me.

I was smacked as a child and it hasnt made me into a violent person and i wasnt scared off my mum but it did make me think twice about misbehaving. There is a big difference between a tap smack thump and beating.I wonder how many of you where smacked as children.I also think that shouting at children can be quite damaging. This has been an interesting thread.

i was smacked as a child only when i had done something really bad. it never did me any harm. i now have four kids and have used the same method with all but two they just babies at 6 months and 18 months far too young. i see nothing wrong with a slight tap on the hand for doing something dangerous or nasty but i do agree that smacking as a result of temper loss in the parent is wholly unacceptable. i smacked both my boys sometimes when they were younger they 7 and 5 now dont need to do it anymore. my lo is 18months not got to smack stage yet as she just learning but when they get to a certain age they know right from wrong and deserve to be punished if they overstep the mark. normal methods like naughty steps and privelege removal have never worked with my two boys

no it wasn't a joke. its life how i see it on my planet. - ihave never seen in practice a working planet mumsnet. without the things i have described - the finger pointing, the pulling, the shouting. i am sure everyone on mumsnet is the exception.

not that any of that was the point of my strop - 2 days ago?

i did go on the class thread and posted one word "bollocks" after someone posted and i disagreed. i did it in haste as a result of anger at this thread - i intended to go through and post more one worders at stuff i disagreed with - kinda proving a point when people (as they would) got angry , upset or shirty. but i regretted it. i like to put accross an explaination of why i feel the way i do.

challenge my preconceptions. i can and often do change opinion due to mumsnet. i am most certainly better infomred becuase of it.

your statement custy was bollocks becuase.....

is quite different from

bollocks.

we all generalise. we have many threads generalising about mumsnet and mumsnetters. lentle weaving organic etc etc.

there are bound to be exceptins to the rule - no doubt 5 r 6 will come directly with the " i am on WFTc and never ate a lentil in my life but ...."

i hae honetly never met anyone proporting to live live the mumsnet way.

i have the upper of upper crusties of friends. and i have inlaws that make mrs bouquets sisters family look classy.

from toff to trog there is no perfet parent. and i tink i your in control all the time - you mustn't be on this planet anyway.

I have smacked ds a few times and hated myself for it, particularly as it was done out of sheer temper (mine and his), it just seems like such a negative thing to do when you are trying to teach a child the correct way to behave. Also I don't know about anyone else but with me a smacking incident always ends up with lots of cuddles because I feel so crap about it as soon as it is done. Then the reason for the discpline is lost and renders the violence even more pointless.

I was smacked as a child, only occassionally when I'd been really naughty. I always understood the cause of the smack and each time I did think I deserved it a the time and afterwards. It made me respect my Mum, as she often asked us to stop doing whatever it was we were doing and we would just ignore her. A smack on the back of the leg, which causes nothing more than a sharp momentary sting, puts a stop to the behaviour instantly.

To suggest it did me any harm is laughable .

Things which did harm me were things like being bullied at school when I was five, or my Mum saying something nasty to me on occasion.

I have occasionally smacked DS since he was 4 - using my Mum's method as a role model because it worked. DS knows I love him. He also knows when he's being naughty and knows he would only be smacked for being very naughty indeed and after several warnings! (He also likes Dr Who and would be a lot more traumatised if he was banned from watching for being naughty and I'm sure would never forgive me!)

I have never smacked DD 3, as she has never done anything sufficiently naughty to warrant a smack.

I can echo what fatfox has said completely. There are many more harmful things to do to a child than smack them occasionally.
It really annoys me that the anti- smackers make such sweeping generalisations about how damaging smacking is and how all of us who have been smacked have been damaged. Yes, I have been damaged by my parents in the same way that we all have been to some extent, but it wasn't by smacking, I can tell you that much.

Kittywits i have to agree.

Custardo you talk alot of sense

ffs - the 'anit-smackers sweeping statements'. This is so darn defensive it is untrue!!

Yep I am an anti-smacker.. yep i have felt at times close to slapping his bum when he is being a pain in the bum, the differance is that i stop as I know that I will not be teaching him a valuable lesson and that it is mainly my frustration that is the problem there.

Oh yes, there have been times when i have had a right hissy fit and over-reacted. I have apologised to ds for this when mummy has had a raging headache over tired and one thing after the other type syndrome. In a way tho perhaps it is good for him to see that adults can have crappy grumpy days too but also that we are able to apologise.

I still remain firmly anti-smacking tho, but no i do not claim to be perfect. I resent that I feel that those parent against smacking/hitting thier children have to defend their views. I am not going to agree that children need physical punishment in order to become wellrounded members of society. Ok for a lot of people it hasnt deeply psychlogically scarred them, however who is to say it wont scar your child.

Again i draw comparison to when men were legally allowed to physically punsih their wifes.. now do we think that should be allowed?

I have also seen comments about yobs etc nowadays. To be honest most of the problems i have encountered have been fro mchildren who's family allow them to drink/smoke/go out at all hours. They are also the mums who slap their kids when walking along their street tell them to shut the f up. So absolutely NO I do not think that the yob problem is related to the lack of children being smacked but more to do with the number of parents who swear, drink, do drugs and are slap happy cos they cant be arsed to parent in any other way.

Awen, on threads like these we all have to defend our views and we all come under attack. I have been viciously attacked by those opposed to smacking on a previous smacking thread. It does cut both ways.

i am greensleeves, btw.

KIttywinks - no offence but that really isnt a discussion is it? It is more of a 'he pushed me so i pushed her' type arguement? I have thought about using physical punsihment before having kids but once pg i knew i couldnt.

The age old..well it didnt harm me answer just doesnt sound very thought out or intelligent.. actually sounds downright lazy and blinkered. imo anyway.

I was so proud of my friend who has smacked her dd and since watching that programme as vowed to stop.

Of course because it was done to us, and our parebnts and theirs and theirs then it has to be ok right? Then why does the NSPCC and numerous leading child protection experts say otherwise? Of course they know sod all really.

Sorry but it took how long for people to realise that smoking is really bad and does damage kids lungs too. How long till it became illegal for husbands to hit their wifes? That is why history is recorded.. so we LEARN from it and not nessacarily repeat it.

fantastic post greensleeves.. so much calmer put (certainly not ferocious at all - unlike mine perhaps )

Awen and Greeny (get well soon, btw - lumpy tonsils are Not Fun At All x x x), yes, what they said.

I was smacked. I didn't like it, or learn from it. I can't remember what I did wrong, I can remember the smacks. I was (and DS1 is - DS2 it remains to be seen, as he's only 8mo) a child who was very easy to reason with and had a very good and deep understanding of social behaviour very early on. I can remember being two very clearly, my thoughts and feelings - I have distinct memories from then of all sorts of things. I was smacked till I was about 11 and I can honestly say it did nothing but scare me.

Sticking my head above the parapet, do you think it's as polarised as this thread would have us believe?

I would class myself as anti-smacking in that I do everything within my power not to do it. However, I have smacked my children in the past (very infrequently) when I've come to the end of my tether with them. I have then immediately apologised and felt dreadful for a long time afterwards.

The thing that worries me about making smacking illegal is that I bet there are an awful lot of parents like me out there and I don't see what prosecuting us would possibly achieve. I think I am a good mum and would do anything for my children. I am not proud in the slightest of "losing it" but should that make me a criminal?

Greeny, sorry you are poorly. I felt viciously attacked by you on that thread, but I don't hold it against you, Sorry you are poorly, hope you get better soon.

Arwen, I was thinking about all this and I thought, well I chose to smack occasionally BECAUSE after considered thought I beleive it is not harmful to children. In my opinion it is much more preferable to many other 'modern' and trendy methods esposed by well known parenting 'gurus' such as the naughty step. IMO that is a horrible, isolating and potentially pretty damaging thing to do to a child, but that is just my opinion.

All the time I make decisions about how to parent, help and discipline my children. I chose, like any loving parent, methods that I consider to be effective, not harmful.
But like every parent I take risks, and like every parent I will get things wrong.
You are taking risks and doing things'wrong' right now..
Who's to say in a few years time your children won't be talking about how you traumatised them by doing, not doing X, Y and Z. You ,however, YOU thought it was a perfectly acceptable way to parent. You cannot know all of this can you? Still you as a loving parent make the best choices you can and you hope for the best.

You say smacking is potentially damaging. I think not. I could disect your discipline methods and I am in no doubt that I would say that you were potentially damaging your child or children by doing certain things. It wouldn't make you a bad parent or one that didn't love them and want the best for their child/children.

When I occasionally threaten my children with a smack most of the time that is enough in itself to bring about the desired effect. On rare occasions when it is not I can smack in a controlled way. Far, far better to smack 'in cold blood' as Greesleves put it, than to lash out when you have lost control of youself and cannot contol the force or placement of the smack.

When my mother was parenting me as a child and teenager I wish to God that her methods of discipline were just physical. She, no doubt thought she was doing the right thing, she loved me, but had she merely smacked me I would be a much, much happer person today.
It's easy to pick on smacking, it's such an easy target. I wish these threads were about the merits of various discipline methods not attacking the parents who administer them.
Those who attack controlled smacking anger me with their hypocrasy because they, despite their best intentions are doing things to their children that perhaps with hindsite they will wish they hadn't.. Or is it that anti smackers never have and never will do anything damaging to their childen? , we all know that is a load pf c**p, I say look to put your own houses on order before you get self- righteous and attack other people's parenting methods.