Part 3: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread as part 2 is nearly full.

Part 1 is here.

Part 1 was started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Part 2 is here.

In part 2 we mainly discussed the legality and human consequences of Operation Protective Edge.

Here are two articles that focus on insight, rather than taking sides. They are both very good:
www.newrepublic.com/article/118751/how-israel-palestine-peace-deal-died
972mag.com/why-do-palestinians-continue-to-support-hamas-despite-such-devastating-loses/94080/

And here is an article about selective internationalism, written by a leftwing Syrian who is no kind of supporter of Israel.
notgeorgesabra.wordpress.com/2014/07/22/selective-internationalism-an-activist-disorder/

yes it does - it rings bells with south africa for me.

and no, not with what you're saying. if you're talking about holocaust era the treatment of palestinians in israel rings huge bloody klaxons though.

there's no sides here, there's no war. there is a genocide and a 1000+ dead in the latest ethnic cleansing sweep.

this 'neutrality is the be all and end all of justice' crap is wearing off of humanity. even children of 5 are taught that standing by and watching bullying or 'just staying out of it' or 'not taking sides' makes you complicit.

honeybadger those ideas re the boycott are great.

YY Egypt needs to open the border and Hamas need to stop firing rockets BUT you can't deny that Israel has killed more than 1,000 Palestinians so far - it is overwhelming might pitched against 1.7m civilians who are trapped in a few square miles.

Israel is the key here. It is Israel that chose to launch the latest all-out war on the occupied territories - flouting international law as usual.

But yes, Egypt and Hamas need to be involved in talks. Not even peace talks at this stage, they are too far apart from that.

Thing is, Hamas was terribly weakened when Israel launched this latest offensive. They were about to hand over to the Palestinian Authority which controls the West Bank. Israel fears Paestinian unity so they chose to pick this murderous fight. They want Hamas to be the big baddie.

2 kids following incident:

• yeah but he threw a stone at me, i mean it missed but it COULD have hurt me and he called me names and said i was a bully and he wished i was dead so i smashed him in the face with a baseball bat.

would you really want the teacher to stand there in front of your child's smashed in face and say oh well you see it's a complex situation i wouldn't like to take sides, perhaps you could ask your child not to be so violence seeking in future.

Even the mainstream media is accepting that This is not a war. It's far too unilateral.

Atrocities in Syria and other parts of the world cannot be used in an argument to justify apartheid and genocide. If a thread about Syria is started I would be registering my disgust there. I'm never ceased to be amazed that apologists are up in arms about the use of words like genocide, massacre and boycott but are unmoved by dead babies.

Many local restaurants in my area have signed a petition stating they will not use israeli produce. The boycott is gathering pace. There is no way we can boycott every product from israel (note please that the boycott is of israeli goods not jewish) but this is certainly a start.

Israel4icc still trending on twitter.

Can I just mention Lush again. As most of my regular makeup manufacturers are on the boycott list, I did a bit of research to find an ethical replacement. Not only are Lush very ethical re animal testing etc, they were actually boycotted by pro israeli groups after they supported a music single by Oneworld released in support of Palestine. They also do charity pots and have made donations to War on Want, another charity who actively supports justice for the Palestinians.

There is enough land in the world for everyone to live in peace, maybe other surrounding countries could give the Palestinians land to start again?

No but as a teacher I would understand the complexities of child a repeatedly trying to take pot shots at child b mostly missing and sometimes not and calling for my demise and not recognising me and I would understand why they have retaliated.

So no I don't agree

ReigningQueen thanks for that link. All those demands sound perfectly reasonable.
Homehelpmegawd thanks for those interesting links. Good to see Israel's actions are questioned in an Israeli magazine.

Why bring the treatment of Palestinians in Syria into this? Firstly, don't assume people don't care. Secondly, this is a thread about the conflict in Gaza, not Syria. Thirdly, it's a big deal because our government through lack of condemnation and ongoing relationship with Israel is complicit in the civilian deaths.
Also I wsh people would stop insinuating that lack of support for Israel somehow equates to anti-Semitism. It's a bit of a low tactic.

Good article in The Independent this morning, though I think some mumsnetters may have already read this www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israelgaza-conflict-secret-report-helps-israelis-to-hide-facts-9630765.html

The demand made by Hamas are completely reasonable. In particular the siege must be lifted. If only israel would let Hamas be a part of the negotiations. As Jon snow asked the despicable Regev 'why don't you just have the courage to talk directly to hamas?'

Very interesting point re israel committing suicide. It can't be easy being the current most despised regime in the world. Their atrocities can no longer be hidden under a cloak of self defence thanks to social media and fantastic journalism from the likes of C4.

Caring about Syria and caring about Palestine are not mutually exclusive- are the people who are suggesting they are suggesting that humans are possessed of one finite pot of compassion, like when you have to choose which charity to give your tokens to in the supermarket? Or when you worry that you won't love your second child as much as your pfb? It's a nonsensical argument.

We know what Hamas wants but what does Israel want?

I have family in Syria and family who have fled Syria.

I find the cries of "What about Syria" to be some odd attempt to deflect attention away from what Israel are doing, particularly as the people doing it are usually pro-Israel govt.

Syria has already been discussed on thread 2, as has the DRC. It is possible to care about multiple things at once.

wannabe you have forgotten that child b is attempting to hit child a from within a cage that was set up by child a and child a is sitting in what used to be child b's house whilst receiving vast amounts of money and ammunition from the worlds greatest powers .

I keep on saying am not going to get into the wrongs and rights of this but the heartlessness and brutality of some on this thread is sickening. The quranic term 'deaf, dumb and blind' springs to mind.

And the money Hamas has? What do they do with that exactly?
How many millions did yasser Arafat leave in his will? Did he assist his beleaguered people? Nope.
Please don't condemn Israel for actually spending it's money on it's people and their defence instead of leaving them helpless. How dare they?!

wannabe you haven't answered any of the questions posed.

Yasser Arafat was a traitor .
Hamas money- what little they have- is spent on infrastructure and social welfare. Gaza is a relatively clean country with decent construction and hospitals before Israeli fucks up everything ever few years.

City not country, obv

I'm condemning Israel for it's indiscriminate slaughter of civilians, and it's despicable ongoing treatment of them.
I also believe this makes Israelis far less safe, and their cynical leaders don't care.