Part 3: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread as part 2 is nearly full.

Part 1 is here.

Part 1 was started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Part 2 is here.

In part 2 we mainly discussed the legality and human consequences of Operation Protective Edge.

[mathanxiety]

You are absolutely correct in stating that killing children is not a liberal value.

I do not think either side in the current conflict has ever claimed liberal values, however.

[Springheeled]

I just explained to you very clearly that there is far wiser expenditure.

[donnie]

hear hear springheeled. well said.

[ReigningQueen]

Fantastic article here
www.stopwar.org.uk/news/how-bbc-bias-justifies-war-crimes-in-gaza-by-conforming-to-israeli-state-propaganda#.U9P28I29Kc1

Well done to everyone at the demonstration.

[somewheresafe]

I will be boycotting as many israeli goods as possible. My local Morrisons has confirmed it is reviewing as a matter of urgency whether it will continue to source israeli products.

Other supermarkets have issued similar statements. There is also a local campaign to boycott all the big supermarkets and shop at the co-op.

Please don't feed trolls people.

[somewheresafe]

Joan rivers has been ranting about palestinians claiming they are all insane. I can't believe I used to think she was so funny. She's an absolute arsehole.

[mathanxiety]

Better to spend millions on peace initiatives and equality than spending millions on domes, tanks, drones, flechettes, phosphorus, bullets, nukes and slaughter

Indeed.
How much money is spent on rockets?

[mathanxiety]

Should Israel stand by while rockets rain down on civilian centres, Springheeled?

[mathanxiety]

Springheeled, if you think there is a troll on this thread, report him or her in accordance with MN Talk Guidelines.

Let's keep it civil?

[mathanxiety]

Civility is a liberal value after all.

[mathanxiety]

Sorry Springheeled -- that should be:

'Somewherewest, if you think there is a troll on this thread, report him or her in accordance with MN Talk Guidelines.

Let's keep it civil?

[timbucktoo]

Math, do you feel Israel have been fair bombing the hell out of Gaza,killing innocent children and women?

[route1]

Horrific to think that I was studying the history of the 'arab-israeli' conflict at school over 30 years ago.

I do sense that a tide is finally turning in world opinion on this even though it is so tragically slow. I often wonder where the Palestinian Ghandi/Mandela/King is. Presumably buried under a pile of rubble somewhere.

[babbas]

Yes what an absolute twat Joan rivers turned out to be. She sounds completely uneducated. 'They started it' she yells about the palestinians.

Javier bar den on the other hand has posted movingly about their plight.

[AndHarry]

The average age in Gaza is 17. There aren't many well-educated people with the experience, standing and gravitas necessary to unify a traumatised population with widely divergent viewpoints.

I think Iron Dome is money very well spent. Lives are precious and it's no doubt saved some. It's also a very short-term solution whereas removing the threat is going to a be a long-term exercise in nation-building.

[mathanxiety]

Not fair, no. Nor do I feel it is fair of Palestinians to fire rockets into Israel.

I also wonder where does the concept of 'fair' come into it? It's clearly not a game.

Are states faced with the threat of terror obliged to be 'fair'?
Are ethnic groups faced with attack by states obliged to be 'fair'?

Can we assume a state that has decided to deal with terror by means of overwhelming force has considered the pros and cons, including the potential of causing large numbers of casualties and alienation of opinion?

Can we assume the ethnic group that has decided to deal with the state it opposes by means of terror has considered the pros and cons, including the potential of causing large numbers of casualties and alienation of opinion?

It seems to me both sides may be assumed to be equally capable of assessing risk both to themselves and to others here.

[AndHarry]

'Fair' depends on the definition. In terms of international law both sides are being 'unfair'.

[TheXxed]

Israel manufactured its own terror to justify stealing land and resources from Palestinians.

Palestinians did not start the conflict they are reacting to Israeli aggression. That has completely passed you by Math

[Yruapita]

I also find wordsmith's posts thought provoking and see many similarities betwwen South Africa's apartheid years and Israel's apartheid today.

How thuggish are these callous Israelis in government!

Israel's defence minister, Moshe Ya'alon, said on Friday that the military offensive could expand in the coming days. "At the end of the operation, Hamas will have to think very hard if it is worth it to taunt us in the future."

The silence of the leaders is deafening. How much blood do they need spilt before they will say enough is enough!

[AndHarry]

17 minutes of the ceasefire left.

[Yruapita]

Same shit, different day fior the Palestinians. Not surprised they want freedom or death. Israel wont give them freedom, so they rain down death and destruction on a helpless children. That'll teach them to taunt 'them'.

Who in this workf aligns themselves with the 'us' that the israeli defense minister is referring to?

[Yruapita]

Workf = world

[somewheresafe]

I think word was trying to make an important point about the government using agents to inflame complacent whites to react. Political trolls. Some of whom have joined this thread from the other thread maybe?

[zinher]

Butbpalesr

[zinher]

Sorry on phone. Meant to say that the Palestinians did not even do anything this time. The israeli police have admitted that the three israeli boys were not killed by Hamas. Do why the need to pulverise gaza? And kill so many people.