Part 3: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread as part 2 is nearly full.

Part 1 is here.

Part 1 was started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Part 2 is here.

In part 2 we mainly discussed the legality and human consequences of Operation Protective Edge.

[Yruapita]

Another piece confirming what we already know about netanyahu's genocidal streak

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/israelgaza-conflict-whats-the-use-of-balance-in-such-an-asymmetric-war-9630766.html

More voices are making themselves heard.

[TheHoneyBadger]

i've reported the post with the flippant term of 'baby boiling' thrown in. that is beyond sick and way way way over the line in my opinion when actually real babies are dying horrible painful violent deaths. that was a totally inappropriate and sick comment and i hope as a parenting site mumsnet deletes it.

[TheXxed]

Math you don't get it. Palestinians are reacting to Israeli aggression. if Israel wasn't stealing co opting Palestinian resources then they wouldn't have to 'fight back'.

What do you expect Palestine to sit back and except to annexing of the land do nothing. The ANC radicalised in South Africa not because they wanted to but because they realised the Apartheid govt was not interested in a negotiated peace settlement.

As for justifying the murder of civilians I leave that to Netanyahu.

[mathanxiety]

Aw come on, HoneyBadger...

To quote Springheeled:
We're all adults and if our arguments don't stand up or are in opposition to each other, or are heated and emotive that's surely fine.

I was only being heated and emotive. That's surely fine, right?

[mathanxiety]

Why don't you go over to Parenting and browbeat women who have threads about their problems bonding with their babies?

Or bully parents on Teenagers who are at the end of their tether and ready to kick their teenagers out of their homes?

[TheHoneyBadger]

no - making flippant comments about boiling babies when babies are being fucking burned alive, bombed, buried in rubble is not ok. it's not 'heated' or a strong opinion it is vile and it shows utter contempt for the dead. that to me fits into the 'beyond the pale' aspect of mumsnet moderation.

i'm totally shocked by you tbh. never imagined you were like this in all the years i've been on mumsnet. really disappointed.

[TheHoneyBadger]

the grown ups are talking about life and death math. this isn't the place for a bitchfest and it most definitely isn't all about you.

[somewheresafe]

Boycott and sanctions are needed.

Most of the apologists I have come across have been completely brainwashed and self entitled. Thankfully I dint know many.

[TheHoneyBadger]

eu needs to remove israel from their trading agreements. they've been allowed virtual member privileges. that needs to stop.

[mathanxiety]

Where have I defended slaughter, Runes?

[mathanxiety]

Sorry to disappoint you. I wasn't aware I owed you any particular pov about anything.

But I am most definitely feeling very emotive right now and how dare you question that.

In fact, how fucking dare you.

[GoshAnneGorilla]

I can't find it now (wordsmith might be able to help), but the apartheid govt of South Africa actually put out a series of newspaper adverts with a picture of a zebra, claiming that to boycott South Africa would hurt both blacks and whites.

So the idea that boycotts would hurt everyone, is IMO false and generally used to defend the status quo, as boycotts definitely played a role in isolating South Africa and encouraging change.

[mathanxiety]

It is undeniable that boycotts and trade embargos hurt both innocent and guilty.

A mickey mouse boycott that has no teeth and didn't affect the vast majority of citizens in the target country would have little effect. It might make the boycotters feel better, but so what?

The whole point of am effective boycott is that it has a real effect on a huge number of people including the leadership, causing a strong enough and negative enough result to put pressure on a government to change.

That means hurting the innocent along with the guilty.

[mathanxiety]

I refer you to the case of Iraq.

[somewheresafe]

I agree honey. Israel benefits massively from Europe trading agreements. This has to end. Israel is not in the eu thank god.

There are also rumours that nearly half of current MP's are benefitting in some way by alliances with israeli. Companies. I don't know if this is true but it would explain the defeating silence from our impotent leaders.

[somewheresafe]

Defeaning not defeating.

[somewheresafe]

Ffs deafening. Bloody phone.

[ThunderbumsMum]

Do you know what would also explain the lack of condemnation for Israel from senior politicians? That the situation is complicated and there are reasons and nuances you either don't want to understand or are not capable of understanding. But obviously you won't want to admit that your grasp of the political situation is basic at best.

[babbas]

Israel shouldn't be benefitting from eu trade if it breaches every international law so blatantly.

Agree somewhere.

[GoshAnneGorilla]

Thunderbums - for someone complaining of lack of nuance, your argument doesn't seem to stretch beyond calling people who disagree with you stupid.

Also, there's not that much nuance to over a 1000 people killed, is there? What nuance would you like to add to their deaths? What caveat would you like to give for it being acceptable for them to die?

[ThunderbumsMum]

Why don't you have a think and see if you can come up with something? I'll give you a few clues... Decades of calling for the destruction of Israel, nail bombs on school buses and celebrations in the streets when an Israeli child is killed, thousands of rockets fired into Israel with the aim of killing as many Israelis as possible, the abduction and murder of Israeli teenagers, the refusal to recognise Israel and the stated intention to keep attacking Israel until it is destroyed.

[ThunderbumsMum]

Btw, the whole point of my previous post was not that the deaths are justified but that the situation is more complicated and nuanced than you seem to think. Or did you not get that?

[mathanxiety]

Somewheresafe --
What is the source of those rumours that Israel somehow influences politics or political decisions outside of Israel?
(i.e. 'nearly half of current MP's are benefitting in some way by alliances with israeli. Companies. I don't know if this is true but it would explain the defeating silence from our impotent leaders.')

Are you saying that Israel has financial and political clout disproportionate to its size?

[mathanxiety]

GoshAnne:
'Also, there's not that much nuance to over a 1000 people killed, is there? What nuance would you like to add to their deaths? What caveat would you like to give for it being acceptable for them to die?'

Is it the simplicity of the thousand deaths that has grabbed your attention?