Part 3: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread as part 2 is nearly full.

Part 1 is here.

Part 1 was started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Part 2 is here.

In part 2 we mainly discussed the legality and human consequences of Operation Protective Edge.

somewheresafe

"Israel seem very concerned about the one sided portrayal of deaths in this massacre."

I did see the view that if it was a thousand Israeli dead and thirty Palestinians, there would be a lot more outrage.

People who support the actions of the State of Israel repeatedly say "what do you want? More Israeli deaths?" no we don't. We want fewer Palestinian deaths. What a stupid thing to say.

The BBC news presenter earlier was pretty sharp with their Israeli guest about the latest killings at the school....for a change
this ex IDF adviser was very moderate and spoke "normal"

Piglet yes it is a very stupid thing to say especially as the 55 deaths on the Israeli side have been mostly soldiers, well duh, soldiers go to war and they can die, its yet again an unbalanced argument, the majority of the 1250 Palestinians now dead were not and a fifth were children
Thats not to say I dont think the young mens deaths in the army is not also tragic,they too have mothers fathers sisters and brothers

I clicked on that New Yorker link. Article isn't there any more. Is something weird going on?

Springheeled I just phoned my me too. She has sent a letter and is awaiting a response from the minister. This may take up to 5-6 weeks! I was also told that they have received many emails regarding Israel.

Phoned my MP
Not me

emma2277 Wed 30-Jul-14 12:32:43
this ex IDF adviser was very moderate and spoke "normal"

"Persuadables [sic] won't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Show Empathy for BOTH sides!" This may explain why a number of Israeli spokesman are almost lachrymose about the plight of Palestinians being pounded by Israeli bombs and shells.

sorry

" "Persuadables [sic] won't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Show Empathy for BOTH sides!" This may explain why a number of Israeli spokesman are almost lachrymose about the plight of Palestinians being pounded by Israeli bombs and shells."

I apologise for the fact that some people will say Dr Lunz does not exist and this document has never been written and I am a filthy liar.

The tunnels are also a very convenient discovery by the Israelis. There were reports that Egypt found tunnels on their border and managed to close them without killing a single palestinian.

A few days ago Jon snow made a good point about the tunnels when he said if every palestinian emerging from the tunnels us shot on sight then they pose no risk.

To me it looks like a complete scorched earth policy. Israel are obliterating and pulverising their way through Gaza. Gaza is now effectively 50% destroyed of all homes mosques civilians and infrastructure. Ready for Israel to re occupy and rebuild. Disgusting.

Does everyone else feel that the tide in the world, the media and politics is changing. Everyone is angry at israel. When Brazil criticised israel last week israel most pathetically responded by calling them a weakling in world politics who had lost the world cup. Only the US can stop the massacre because we have to face the fact that Israel and it's people have no intention of stopping.

yehuda shaul ex Israeli army officer interviewed on al jazeera, what a sane voice in the chaos! Indeed, he asks where have all the operations led to/this one leading to, good question, we need new policies

Yair Evron, Telaviv university professor, another wise moderate Israeli

babbas, I dont personally believe the majority of Israeli people are supportive of mad Netanyahus actions, alot just dont speak out

Oh and Babbas I forgot to add how stupid and CHILDISH and contemptuous of the whole situation was that comment about Brazil losing the world cup

There was a good article yesterday from the BBC explaining about the tunnels. I was wondering why the IDF didn't just scan the ground outside the wall to find them but apparently they're built too deep. Article here.

I don't know that Israeli opinion is changing. My relatives, who are still horrified by the civilian deaths, are completely in support of the operation, as are my American friends with strong connections to Israel and international politics. I don't know what to say to them really :(

My family there too have now started supported military action. They are completely brainwashed into a 'it's them or us' mentality. It's pathetic really.

Jon snow asked Regev that if Israel has the most sophisticated technology in the world, sufficient to detect tunnels and close them clean at the israeli end, why then they need to kill every child and adult. The tunnels are a red herring.

I feel despair today.

I emailed my MP more than a week ago. No reply.

I emailed Philip Hammond a week ago. No reply.

I've signed several petitions calling for sanctions and for the UK to stop selling arms to Israel. No change.

I don't seem to buy any Israeli goods anyway and the supermarket where I shop mostly stocks either British or South African fruit and vegetables, so I can't tell anyone that I'm boycotting their goods.

I've emailed my family with links to petitions and websites where they can do pro forma emails to the UK government etc. No reply.

I've put links on Facebook to information about what is happening and letting friends know about demonstrations etc. A couple of my friends are as concerned as I am everyone else has ignored my posts.

A friend came round the other day an noticed the placard I have from last weekend's protest in London. She said that she was shocked by what was happening and thought that it was great that I'd gone, but didn't seem moved to do anything herself.

Why aren't people more concerned about what is happening? Is it just that they don't think there is anything that they can do to stop it?

They built tunnels to escape the war saw ghetto too.

What do israel expect a caged nation to do. It's sad because tunnelling out is such a primitive form of resistance and highlights the massive discrepancy here between an army equipped with the latest technology and firepower, and a civilian resistance armed with basic tools.

harry tell them they and their mad leader are out of order as their mission seems suicidal...ALL experts agree this relentless destruction killing and violence will NOT procure peace....warmongers do not even know what the word means, their dna doesnt allow it, seen enough shit on the tv for one day, and feel sick, what the palestinians are going through is a million times worse

Have you noticed how the Israeli government refers to the tunnels as "terror tunnels"?

It reminds me of the usage of "Sinn Fein IRA" by unionists during the Northern Ireland Peace Process.

When you bracket words together in this way you are implying that they are one and the same thing.

I know that the tunnels are used by Hamas to enter Israel but they are also used to bring food and medicine into Gaza (allowed but controlled by Israel) and to bring in building supplies, which I understand are restricted. With Gaza's air, sea and land borders controlled or blockaded by Israel and Egypt, with no airport or usable port and all supplies in and out controlled by Israel, it seems inevitable that there will be tunnels in an effort to get supplies. If Israel were to lift the siege then there would be less need for tunnels.

Israeli Eran Efrati has leaked the following in relation to israeli soldiers being told to kill civilians as revenge for soldiers being killed. It's chilling and haunting to read.

baking, can't read that, can you post a link?

Baking novice thank you for posting that. Another result of this terrible campaign is the brutalising of young Israelis doing national service. Those in their army are so young. Hardly more than teenagers.

So sorry. Will try and find a link.

Reports are emerging from al jazeera that shaima, the little girl born via c section from her dead mothers womb has passed away. The doctors tried desperately to save her but with little resources and medical aid denied access into Gaza she couldn't be saved. So so distressing.

When will this ever end?

babbas i am sat here feeling devastated about that little baby girl. Part of me feels relief that she is not going to face life in that concentration camp. The other part feels such anger that this is what the majority of Israeli people are supporting. Ignorance or not, it is inhumane how they can watch innocent babies and their mothers die and yet support their sick twisted government.

What is worse is that our government knows its sick and twisted, yet they still support Israel in its quest to wipe out children.

funambulist i admire all the actions you have taken. the tide is turning and people are taking notice. Please do not be disheartened.

when every palestinian is dead or traumatised beyond any kind of resistance OR the world steps up and speaks out against genocide.

the latter won't happen and we have to wonder why. it can't just be weapons sales and footholds in the ME. to go so far against one's own people and their desires there must be bigger fish to catch.