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Part 3: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

961 replies

AndHarry · 26/07/2014 16:54

New thread as part 2 is nearly full.

Part 1 is here.

Part 1 was started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Part 2 is here.

In part 2 we mainly discussed the legality and human consequences of Operation Protective Edge.

OP posts:
Yruapita · 30/07/2014 16:02

Sorry, i know its a BBC link, but even BBC shows how low IDF can go killing and then producing poor quality videos as justification.

At the scene: BBC's Chris Morris in Gaza

It is a grim scene at the school: debris and personal belongings scattered among dried pools of blood, in a classroom where displaced Palestinians had been sleeping.

The UN says this is the sixth time that one of its schools has been hit by shellfire since this conflict began. And I've been told by UN officials on the ground that they believe Israeli forces were responsible on each occasion.

Israel often disputes the UN's version of events. When the UN said an Israeli mortar had hit a school in Beit Hanoun last week, for example, killing at least 13 people, Israel produced video from an aerial drone which it said showed the school compound was empty. But the UN told me - and it has made the same point to the Israeli military - that the resolution of the video is so poor compared with proper satellite imagery that you cannot see some of the trees in the compound, let alone the people.

Now the language the UN is using to protest against attacks on its schools is becoming stronger, as it has become angrier and more exasperated. Referring to today's school attack, the Commissioner-General of Unrwa, Pierre Krahenbuhl, could not have been any clearer: "I condemn in the strongest possible terms this serious violation of international law by Israeli forces."

funambulist · 30/07/2014 16:03

The Guardian today - "Philip Hammond, the foreign secretary, has said that Israel is undermining its support in the west."

Really? It's hard to tell.

Philip Hammond won't even say whether he thinks Israel's shelling of Gaza is proportionate. He says that proportionality is an emotive word.

TheHoneyBadger · 30/07/2014 16:09

ah there's that condemnation of things being 'emotive' again. apparently we should feel silly and irrational for feeling emotion in the face of children being slaughtered in supposed safe places like UN schools. we should feel silly and immature for thinking that international law should be abided by. etc.

this is emotive. full stop. not because we're silly, because we're human.

KareninsGirl · 30/07/2014 16:46

You do realise rockets from hamaswere launched into Israel from that school and Israel was simply responding?

Death is horrible but what is Israel meant to do? Just sit back and allow a terrorist organisation to continually bombard them until they no longer exist?

TheHoneyBadger · 30/07/2014 16:48

please could you provide some evidence for that assertion karenin?

personally i wouldn't kill a dozen children regardless. call me crazy but a rocket that hurt no one and had zero chance of penetrating my defenses or reaching actual targets would NOT cause me to slaughter children. however if it is the case that weapons were fired from that locale please do show us the proof and the means israel took to try and deal with it without killing children.

TheHoneyBadger · 30/07/2014 16:49

or are you just believing whatever propaganda is flung at you and expecting us to do the same even though we're subject to a far broader reporting and coverage of events than you? could you at least look up the word propaganda and consider how it applies to your own media and government? we're all having to. our government here in UK is saying they support you yet we are looking deeper and further for facts such as you have to.

IsraeliArab · 30/07/2014 16:55

As someone who lives in Israel, I would ask you to remember that Hamas has been attacking us for years. The town of Sderot for example, has had to live with constant missile assaults for over four years. Can you imagine bringing up your children this way?

I am an Arab, I live in Israel, and I can tell you that there was no choice but to now go into Gaza. The missiles are huge, and even if they don't kill anyone, when they explode the resulting fire is awful and very dangerous.

Also the tunnels; Hamas has built so many of these, they go from Gaza and under Israeli homes and schools and villages. We have already had a few incidents where terrorists have used these and then suddenly appeared above ground and killed Israelis.

Maybe try imagining one of these tunnels ending beneath the bedroom of your child.

I cannot think of any country that would be attacked like this, and not respond. Israel must defend herself.

Yes, I cry when I see dead children in Gaza. I do. But I know they are dead because of Hamas. Hamas uses civilians as human shields. They openly admit doing this.

OhBuggerandArse · 30/07/2014 16:58

'Humanize Palestine attempts to restore the humanity that is often stripped away when Palestinians are reduced to calculative deaths, forgettable names, and burned and mutilated bodies, rather than people who shared loved ones, stories, dreams and aspirations.'

humanizepalestine.com/

They are so young. No, I mis-spoke. They were so young.

Springheeled · 30/07/2014 16:59

israeliarab give it a rest, we're all heartily sick of this shit to be honest.

Backinthering · 30/07/2014 17:01

Actually the IDF has been caught using children as human shields. Whereas all the reporters in Gaza have said they have seen NO evidence of Hamas using civilians like this. So yet more propaganda.
Latest sick joke. USA wants to reward Israels actions with nearly 300 million dollars to bolster its defense systems.

justasecond · 30/07/2014 17:01

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Backinthering · 30/07/2014 17:02

"IsraeliArab", wake up and see the truth. Your government are monsters.

KareninsGirl · 30/07/2014 17:04

Why is israeliarab supposed to 'give it a rest'? Just because she is in a minority on this thread amongst all you Israel haters, she is entitled to her say.

It's called free speech.

Springheeled · 30/07/2014 17:06

It's called a steaming pile of bollocks aimed at excusing a despicable government committing sickening war crimes.

justasecond · 30/07/2014 17:06

Shame on Israelis who support this massacre and double shame on you "IsraeliArab" for supporting the killing of your fellow Arabs.

TheHoneyBadger · 30/07/2014 17:07

SURE you're an israeli arab - SURE you are. and you just happened to have created a mumsnet account with that username today. SURE.

justasecond · 30/07/2014 17:08

They are getting a tad desperate now I think HB.

TheHoneyBadger · 30/07/2014 17:09

pfft free speech and propaganda sales are not quite the same thing you know. there's no free speech threat when the speaker is saying what is approved and spewed out by the powers that be anyway.

free speech comes into play when you try to say something other than the status quo dialogue and approved rhetoric and find yourself swarmed by apologists and accusations and sudden mysterious 'arab israelis' reiterating the status quo.

TheHoneyBadger · 30/07/2014 17:10

honestly catch up - we're not THAT stupid anymore.

OhBuggerandArse · 30/07/2014 17:11

KAreninsGirl: look at this

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/jan/09/israel-foreign-ministry-media

Springheeled · 30/07/2014 17:11

kareninsgirl I'm not an 'Israel hater', I hate the government of Israel. That's like calling someone a 'Britain hater' because they campaign against the bedroom tax. Except that the bedroom tax, while it has killed some, is not responsible for the deaths of thousands. So don't try and sneak in your wails of antisemitism yet again (yawn)

IsraeliArab · 30/07/2014 17:11

I've just been reading through the threads a bit more. If I may clarify a few things:

Israel is responsible for the safety of Israeli citizens. All citizens including Arabs such as myself, Christians, Druze, Muslims, and so on.

Hamas is responsible for the safety of Gazan citizens. It is not logical to argue that it's fine for Hamas to attack Israeli civilians, but that Israel cannot respond. This is a war we are fighting right now. Hamas has openly stated it aims to kill Jews. Not Israelis - Jews.

Israel left Gaza in 2005. The belief was that there would be peace. Instead, as soon as Israel left, Hamas attacks increased.

A lot of you seem to forget that Jews have always lived in Palestine. I'm an Arab and I know this. The term 'palestinians' always referred to the Jews living in this region.

The tiny, tiny bit of Palestine that became Israel, only became Israel because Jews were the indigenous people in that part.

Backinthering · 30/07/2014 17:13

ChristianAid has issued a very strong statement of condemnation.
www.christianaid.org.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/July-2014/christian-aid-statement-on-gaza-impunity-must-end.aspx

Backinthering · 30/07/2014 17:14

'Tiny, tiny bit'. You over-egged it a bit there I'm afraid.

Springheeled · 30/07/2014 17:18

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz israeliarab thanks for the govt approved history lesson but I think you'll find we can all read and yet we STILL condemn your vile government's actions