Part 3: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread as part 2 is nearly full.

Part 1 is here.

Part 1 was started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Part 2 is here.

In part 2 we mainly discussed the legality and human consequences of Operation Protective Edge.

Protect yourself, bomb shelters, watch your children on buses.

The point is, you shouldn't just protect yourself and 'your vila in the jungle', you should protect those who are weaker, those who have no voice, those who are being abused.

If everyone in the world just looked out for themselves, where would we be? That's not really workable in the long-term, or the short-term.

What we are trying to do on this thread is to speak out for those who can't, to raise awareness of the injustice so that it can be brought to and end.

I strongly disagree that post with the words Holocaust and genocide should be removed. Nobody owns these words. No race, nationality, ethnic or religious group owns these words.

If you tolerate the actions of the Israel military, you are supportive of, you are complicit in genocide, the proposed genocide of Palestinians. The Israeli Prime minister has pledged to not stop, to not cease-fire until the threat is removed.

When will the threat be removed?

Ask yourselves, those of you in support of the actions of the Israel military, when will the Palestinians no longer be a threat to Israel?

I hate the weed analogy because I don't want to give fuel to the fire that pretends to dehumanise the Palestinians, but the explanation is perfect.

Palestine will no longer be perceived as a threat to Israel when it is exterminated, is the insinuation that underlies what Netanyahu is promising.

Yes, the problem is massively complex and encompasses more than I can wrap my head around, land, oil, maintaining a Western ally in the Middle East but I do know that I will not and we CAN NOT tolerate the extermination of an entire nation of people.

If you're wondering what you can do to show your dissent, look up boycott www.BDSmovement.net, for info on cultural, consumer and academic boycott. And if you can, you can make financial donations to UNRWA www.unrwa.org/how-you-can-help

isitme : if you answer the following questions directly, there is a chance posters here will engage with you:

• do you agree that the blockade of Gaza should be ended immediately? and if not, why not? are you happy that supplies of medicines, food and water to Gaza are controlled by Israel?

-do you the agree that the supposed 'withdrawal ' from Gaza under the leadership of Ariel Sharon was in name only, since Israel controls Gaza's borders, coast and air space?

-do you think that the sustained and recently accelerated system of theft of Palestinian land and farms - for so called 'settlers (all of whom are Israeli) is an act of racist aggression? or is it ok?

Do you believe that the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves from having their land and livelihoods taken away from them by the Israeli govt, against the dictates of International law? or do you see that as pretty much ok?

Are you able to grasp that Hamas is seen as a 'terrorist' group only by some - and not all?

-Do you think that it's ok for hospitals, playgrounds and beached with little kids on them to be bombed BECAUSE THEY ARE PALESTINIAN ? and because it's done by Israelis?

now if you address these, we may engage with you.

Not many words for the last 24 hours :(

Why was the power plant bombed?
Why was the TV station bombed?
Why was the port bombed depriving fishermen of their livelihood?
Why were children killed in a playground?
Why was a mosque demolished?
More civilian deaths and injuries
None of these seem legitimate targets to me

How many Hamas militants have been killed or disarmed versus innocents?

Please dont reply as most people know most of the answers

I hope the current attempts at a ceasefire succeed

As for the hooligans chanting video, shameful, as is right wing Israeli extremists beating the Arab Mayor and his son to a pulp with iron bars

Whole situation is insane

I hope Mrs Netanyahu gets the Mr's pipe and slippers tonight and his little brandy then wallops him round the head and teaches him a thing or two

Yes the desire to attack Iran is palpable. The reaction of Bibi to recently thawed relations between the West and Iran, after Ahmadinejad was replaced, was one of fury and rage.

As an aside to what is being discussed on this thread being the slaughter of innocent Palestinians, is anyone aware that each tunnel cost Hamas $3 million to build. So far 30 have been found. That is 90 million dollars Hamas could have invested in the welfare of it's people.

This is from the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset. I don't know if this is what will happen or not.

"Attack the entire ‘target bank’ throughout Gaza with the IDF’s maximum force (and not a tiny fraction of it) with all the conventional means at its disposal. All the military and infrastructural targets will be attacked with no consideration for ‘human shields’ or ‘environmental damage’. It is enough that we are hitting exact targets and that we gave them advance warning."

"Defense – Any place from which Israel or Israel’s forces were attacked will be immediately attacked with full force and no consideration for ‘human shields’ or ‘environmental damage’."

"Sovereignty – Gaza is part of our Land and we will remain there forever. Liberation of parts of our land forever is the only thing that justifies endangering our soldiers in battle to capture land. Subsequent to the elimination of terror from Gaza, it will become part of sovereign Israel and will be populated by Jews. This will also serve to ease the housing crisis in Israel."

www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/15326#.U9fTgqJ0yic

each tunnel cost Hamas $3 million to build

I think you added a couple of million to the cost!!!!!

The IDF recently published the below map showing that tunnels were created in pairs, to empty out on both sides of nearby communities. The known cost of the infrastructure – each tunnel costs upward of some $1 million

Read more: dailycaller.com/2014/07/27/stories-from-the-battlefield-hamas-tunnels-used-to-target-israels-kindergartens/#ixzz38sXJ5UUK

I wonder how the Israeli Army got hold of the builders' invoices.

Or perhaps they just made a guess estimate, for propaganda purposes..

LOL

wow claig what a racist proclamation - 'it will be populated by jews' - proof of the Israeli's govt's entirely racist agenda.

Claig: I think it is just the personal opinion of a far-right politician rather than policy, but still extremely worrying.

donnie, read the rest of the article. There's more.

halfdrunkcoffee, I agree. It is just his view.
Some leaders in the US have presumably given Israel a green light to do what they are doing, and that may explain why the EU leaders are not really doing much or saying much to try and stop it.

As I understand it, if you listen to the spokespeople, Hamas have been firing rockets on and off for years, but we haven't seen such a strong reaction for quite a few years.

Add message | Report | Message poster claig Tue 29-Jul-14 18:08:12
This is from the Deputy Speaker of the Knesset. I don't know if this is what will happen or not.

"Attack the entire ‘target bank’ throughout Gaza with the IDF’s maximum force (and not a tiny fraction of it) with all the conventional means at its disposal. All the military and infrastructural targets will be attacked with no consideration for ‘human shields’ or ‘environmental damage’. It is enough that we are hitting exact targets and that we gave them advance warning."

"Defense – Any place from which Israel or Israel’s forces were attacked will be immediately attacked with full force and no consideration for ‘human shields’ or ‘environmental damage’."

"Sovereignty – Gaza is part of our Land and we will remain there forever. Liberation of parts of our land forever is the only thing that justifies endangering our soldiers in battle to capture land. Subsequent to the elimination of terror from Gaza, it will become part of sovereign Israel and will be populated by Jews. This will also serve to ease the housing crisis in Israel."

www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/15326#.U9fTgqJ0yic

---

may God have mercy on his disgusting soul

that's interesting, claig, but not new or surprising.

On another thread, I have tried to get the people who complain about the anti-semitic variety of racism to condemn other forms of racism. None of them will do so.

Presumably it is to avoid being drawn into a conversation about condemning racist filth that falls from the lips of disgusting animals such as these.

www.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2014/07/25/the-gaza-war-when-strategies-collide/

Unhappily for the Obama administration, the best way for the U.S. to hasten the arrival of a durable cease fire in Gaza is to promise a more robust and hawkish policy in the rest of the region. The Israelis will be more willing to make concessions on a Gaza cease fire if they believe that the U.S. will back them more effectively against Iran, and the Saudis and Egyptians are more likely to give ground in Gaza if the U.S. offers real support in the rest of the region.

PigletJohn ; there is a special kind of racism reserved only for these threads. If you read the threads from a few years back you will observe exactly the same thing. The logic behind it is as follows:

if you criticise the actions of the Israeli government, the IDF and those who kill and maim Palestinian children you are an anti-Semite. A racist. However, if you encourage Israelis to colonise and steal Palestinian land and blitz Palestinian homes and hospitals, you are pointedly NOT a racist. You are merely supporting Israel's right to defend itself. This particular line of argument proposes that the aggressor is allowed to attack, colonise and kill, whereas those being colonised are not allowed to retaliate.

It's simple really. And the US supports it.

Do any of you, far more knowledgable than me, think Iran will get involved, and other Arab States and it will escalate and spread further?

Weren't there 'crisis talks' involving the US in Paris a few days ago? You'd think there would be some media coverage on any talks. It seems like it wasn't genuine.

Thank you to everyone keeping us informed. I am amazed at your eloquence and stamina to keep this thread going. I just want to swear and shout and then hide the news for a while. I'm hoping all the time for some positive news but it just seems that's never going to happen.
I think Israel has gone mad and I can't bear to read anymore from the apologists. How anyone can still defend this shameful, disgusting slaughter is beyond me.

thank you Donnie

I fear, regretfully, that you are right. The people who are most vociferous on anti-semitism are resolutely silent on other racism. This is of course both shameful and disgusting.

BTW, I condemn all forms of racism, of which anti-semitism is just one. I dare say you do, too.

I think it may escalate. I don't think Iran will directly intervene, but I think the West will blame Iran.

If you look at Ukraine as well, I think that the West possibly wants a world war, and it could be triggered in a number of different regions - Ukraine or Middle East being the main ones.

I think Ukraine has been given a green light by the US and Israel has been given a green light by the US and I think there is probably a reason for it.

yes indeed pigletJohn - you will find that the people who condemn Hamas and trot out the rather tired ' wipe Israel off the face of the map' policy (which is no longer their policy) will NOT condemn Knesset member Ayelet Shaked and her calling upon the IDF to kill all 'Palestinian snakes', and they will not condemn the racist policy of colonisation. The only conclusion one can draw, therefore, is that it is perfectly acceptable to be anti Palestinian and perfectly acceptable to steal their land and blitz their hospitals.

I teach my children that colonisation is morally wrong as it presupposes a sense of racial, religious and cultural superiority.

What are Israeli children taught regarding this? anyone like to help out with this?

claig I was hoping that wouldn't be your answer.
The same thoughts have crossed my mind too.

But if it's not too dumb a question, why would the West want to start a world war...?

Claig there are too many sane intellgent people in the world to let this bullshit escalate

Regev just been on sky news saying all they want is peace and quiet......classic!

Tell that to the thousands of lives you have destroyed with impunity and a totally shit harakiri mission and I cant believe the BS he has spouted for 20 minutes and expected people to believe it, also trying to make out Netanyahu as a peace maker oh LoooooL

Im shocked sky has been so derogatory.....pennies are dropping all over the world and about time