Part 3: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

New thread as part 2 is nearly full.

Part 1 is here.

Part 1 was started when 3 Israeli boys were found murdered.

Part 2 is here.

In part 2 we mainly discussed the legality and human consequences of Operation Protective Edge.

I can see why Isitmebut is frightened of my earlier post. He has the closed mind that is determined to proceed with the one approach that has been proved to fail.

Those pics are really encouraging Nancery.

PigletJohn .... comments that it is all one sided and all Israel's fault, is the 'cut and paste' you accuse me of, from a Middle East terrorists handbook.

To anyone else with half a brain they'd realise that a/ if israel really wanted to do that they have the firepower to do a lot more damage and would not issue warnings before hand, and b/ they are aware how politically, on every humanitarian level, the harm the current killing of civilians is doing to their case.

You think so, wordsmith? Are protests on that kind of scale, by Jewish people, likely to make an impact?

(Crosses legs, fingers, eyes etc )

Isitmebut
"PigletJohn .... comments that it is all one sided and all Israel's fault"

your vision is faulty, if you honestly believe you can see those words in my post.

I don't think it is your vision that is faulty.

PigletJohn ..... Sorry, I missed the political 'balance' within this post the first couple of times, I can't think why.

"It's Israel's policy to defeat unrest and resistance by bombing and shelling homes, beaches, parks, hospitals and schools. This is done in the sure and certain knowledge that the majority of those killed and maimed will be non-combatants, many of them children. Obviously this is inhumane and in contravention of international law, but that does not dissuade Israel.

However, let's look at it differently.

Israel has tried oppressing, confining, bombing and shelling Palestinians, killing and maiming them by the thousand, with the claimed justification that it will bring peace. It has used this method repeatedly. Every time, it has failed. In fact, it has increased Palestinian resistance."

Sorry, I thought you had asked questions because you wanted to engage in a discussion about them. My mistake.

No matter how successfully Israelis convince themselves that Israel is the victim and the underdog; no matter how extensively (and cynically) Israeli leaders peddle this perception; and no matter how justifiable such a view may be in the longer view of history - the world just won’t buy it. For most people, the physical evidence is irrefutable: Israel is strong, the Palestinians are weak; Israel is the occupier, the Palestinians are occupied; Israelis live in the “only democracy in the Middle East,” the Palestinians remain disenfranchised and stateless.

I don't think this has been posted already (apologies if it has). It is a piece by Avi Shlaim in the Independent about bias and lack of context in the BBC coverage here.

Thank you AndHarry for these threads, and your considered posts.

Pigletjohn your posts are samey with insults about closed minds that can't see the truth and refusal to answer questions. What happened to hearing someone's point of view and respecting it even though you might not agree. Quite frankly if it can't be done on here I despair as to whether an solution can be agreed on the issue of gaza. I wonder how you would feel if you lived in Israel? Or in fact Palestine Where politicians are unable to agree and the gap is just too far to bridge.

The fact is you don't. And the other person who posted (somewhere?) about not having sympathy for family in Israel who aren't doing more shows no empathy. You walk a mile in their shoes and come up with their conclusions. Protect yourself, bomb shelters, watch your children on buses.

I hope an agreement is reached for all concerned.

wannabestressfree
"I wonder how you would feel if you lived in Israel? Or in fact Palestine Where politicians are unable to agree and the gap is just too far to bridge."

Perhaps you are right, and nobody is allowed to comment on the killing and maiming of thousands unless they live in Israel or the Occupied Territories.

In which case this thread should not exist.

But I think you're wrong.

I've lived in Israel. For many years now there has been no fear. The great apartheid wall and restriction of palestinians has seen to that. But israeli freedom has been bought at what cost? The complete dehumanisation, degradation, death and De - development of a whole nation. No thanks.

I know every nuance being discussed. Of course it's scary being in Israel. I have lived it. But that feeling of fear is nothing compared to the very real reality of being denied human rights and knowing this might your child's last minute on earth.

There are no apologists. Just deniers.

Spoken Word PoetrY" on YouTube
Children of Gaza: Tick, Tock -- Spoken Word Poetry:

How can you notb

I have reported your 15.57 post somewhere. You shouldn't use the words genocide and holocaust so lightly.

I just don't share the same opinion as you but I am not denying you yours.

I cannot stomach interacting with apologists for child murderers any longer. Those who seek to defend Israel's disgusting slaughter have blood on their hands, shame on them all.

www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/the-world-cannot-stand-idly-by-as-this-slow-terrible-death-in-gaza-continues-30448624.html

palsolidarity.org/2014/07/video-israelis-in-tel-aviv-chanting-theres-no-school-tomorrow-theres-no-children-left-in-gaza-oleh/

How can you not be moved?

Unbelievable brutality shown by Israel. Having lived in Israel I can confirm it's a state of paradise compared to palestine.

Wannabe - you reported my post because I used the word genocide and holocaust. You're easily offended. Pity the death of a nation doesn't offend you.

I have never denied your opinion. I welcome it. Debate and discussion is what moved my position from being an apologist myself to completely being against israels military actions.

Claig I have to agree with you there I've always thought if Iran is attacked it will be end of days.

I know this is a highly emotive subject but I really don't think calling people apologists or pro-genocide or pro-Hamas adds anything to the debate.

claig the powers are DESPERATE to attack iran. this will be used somehow.

things are building up and we're all meant to be swallowing the kool aid breadcrumb trail like willing sheep.

we should stick with simple things like child murderers are an affront to humanity whatever bullshit propaganda campaign they run around it. the apologists are just taking their rope and hanging themselves as the collaborators they are.

some of us remain human. we are all palestinians and our children will be next if we collaborate in a bullshit discourse that legitimises slaughtering children and other civilians.

I think

Posted to soon!

With all the negative attention being focused on Israel not just the Israeli government I believe there is a real danger that moderate Israelis could become more insulated and back Netanyahu whereas before they would have backed peace talks

at one stage 'war' meant two armies meeting and fighting and terrorism meant the deliberate slaughtering of civilian life. now allegedly that has all changed. well, no it hasn't changed. it's just that the people with the power to name things are fucking with the definitions. reality remains reality though and those with rational capacity remain rational even if they have fuck all means to change the fact that they are being ruled by pscyhopaths.

imho it no longer matters what political party or sphere you belong to, what your nationality or religion or whatever other superficial tribal link you have - it is as simple as 'do you support the powerful using sophisticated and brutal weaponry to slaughter civilians without any accountability?'. if the answer is yes then don't be surprised when it's your turn.

jesus if the answer is 'yes' what the fuck happened to you?

Yes wtf has happened to people? To stand by this fucking appalling murderous regime. This could be your daughter
www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-politics/10997610/Teen-Palestinian-girl-on-Twitter-live-tweets-Gaza-bomb-attack.html