Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

A Malaysian plane has been shot down in the Ukraine.

835 replies

WeAreEternal · 17/07/2014 16:38

The flight mh17 from Amsterdam to kuala lumpor with 295 people on board, it was a boing 777.
It was shot down with a buk ground to air missile.
They say there are no survivors.

It's awful.

OP posts:
FrankelandFilly · 21/07/2014 15:33

What are people suggesting has happened then? I did read one utterly ridiculous theory that the plane that crashed was actually the disappeared MH370, pretending to be MH17 Hmm
Ignoring the fact that the majority of passengers on MH370 were of Asian descent and the majority on MH17 of European descent.

There are some utter lunatics out there.

DieselSpillages · 21/07/2014 15:37

I agree it all seems improbable .. The timing of it...which has successfully drawn attention away from the Israel/ Gaza conflict is also a red flag. What about the identical 777 Israel had hidden in a hangar which was disclosed when the other plane dissapeared ?

I feel for the relatives. the insensitivity of some of the news reportage is outrageous.

DieselSpillages · 21/07/2014 15:39

truth can be stranger than fiction.. There's a difference between concocting conspiracies and keeping an open mind.

ParsingFlatly · 21/07/2014 15:50

Over the last few days, MH17 and Gaza have kept swapping as the numbers 1 and 2 stories on the BBC website, with in-depth reporting on both.

So it's hardly "successfully drawing attention away from Gaza".

PigletJohn · 21/07/2014 16:05

the ridiculous rumours suggesting a link between the two Malaysian planes are part of the fog being spread by Russia's state-controlled media.

As I am not a Russian I attach no credence to them.

Driedpaintbrush · 21/07/2014 16:39

"There's a difference between concocting conspiracies and keeping an open mind."

Completely agree.

AuntieStella, I'd love to look at that link, if you manage to find and post it.

Thee were two Ukrainian passengers on the missing flight, which makes me uneasy.

Conspiracy theories are by their very nature extreme and fantastical. However, the situation is extremely odd and unprecedented and there are just too many 'misteries' surrounding the events. After all, safe air travel relies on monitoring and transparency. But there are so many unexplained things surrounding both horrific events, it would be idiotic to believe any one media source, that's just common sense I would have thought.

claig · 21/07/2014 16:42

The theory about the two planes does not emanate from Russia, it is an old theory by a Western conspiracy theorist. And most conspiracy sites are American and most theories come from researchers in the West.

RedToothBrush · 21/07/2014 16:42

Yes driedpaintbrush... it is a deep coincidence when you popped up, what you are interested in and what your name is.

Very odd indeed.

AuntieStella · 21/07/2014 16:47

DriedPaintBrush

Sorry I can't find exactly what I meant, but if you look in this article it covers similar ground. I won't C&P as it would interrupt this thread considerably, and it's a long document. The paragraphs I mean are about half way down, and follow the subheading 'Prosecutors Fallacy'. Basically it is when two immensely rare events have happened, you are not comparing it to the likelihood of them happening at all (for they have happened) but to the probability of the other explanations for their having happened (which will also be exceptionally rare).

PigletJohn · 21/07/2014 17:07

claig

"The theory about the two planes does not emanate from Russia," yes it does, and it is being disseminated in Russian media now. It may also be spread by other nutters.

"it is an old theory"
How old, when the second plane only came down a few days ago?

claig · 21/07/2014 17:07

The Ukrainian government are only shelling Donetsk and its train station. Incedible. Putin and Merkel have called for truce so that international investigators can get to the scene. I don't know if Cameron has asked Yats and Poroshenko to call a truce. Aren't the bodies in trains in Donetsk?

Sky reported today that the people near the crash site support the rebels and had banners protesting against Poroshenko and Sky said that yhey were frightened that the Ukrainian troops would be allowed near them.

www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/donetsk-train-station-under-fire-with-reports-that-ukrainian-army-is-attacking-rebel-stronghold/story-fnizu68q-1226996517311

PigletJohn · 21/07/2014 17:08

here you are

claig · 21/07/2014 17:10

"it is an old theory"
How old, when the second plane only came down a few days ago?

What I mean is that the fact that MH370 was in a hangar and not destroyed was around as a theory very soon after the crash of MH370. There were theories that it would be reused elsewhere later.

Now that another Malaysian airliner has crashed, the original theory that MH370 had not been destroyed has been resurrected by some conspiracy theorists recently.

PigletJohn · 21/07/2014 17:16

the ridiculous story that the plane shot down by Russia is the same plane that crashed near Australia, is not old.

claig · 21/07/2014 17:24

You are right, it has only existed since the MH17 was shot down, but it builds on the assumption that MH370 was not destroyed, which was an old theory around at the time of the MH370 disappearance.

"the ridiculous story that the plane shot down by Russia"
That is not a story that most conspiracy theorists in America believe, that is what the mainstream media, Yats and Poroshenko believe.

FrankelandFilly · 21/07/2014 17:27

The bodies are still on a train in Torez according to the BBC. Dutch investigators have been allowed to inspect some of the bodies today.

claig · 21/07/2014 17:30

Thanks, Franke. Yes it is Torez, not Donetsk. I hope there will be no fighting there so that the investigators can do their work. I think the rebels have also agreed to send the bodies to Kiev in trains, but I am not sure if I head that correctly on Sky.

ParsingFlatly · 21/07/2014 17:31

In what way is the situation "odd and unprecedented"?

Aircraft have been going missing since they started flying. Fewer disappear completely now, because tracking's better. But it was two years before the Air France crash in the Atlantic was located.

Civilian aircraft have also, sadly, been shot down a fair bit. Usually in mistake for something else.

PigletJohn · 21/07/2014 17:33

"the ridiculous story that the plane shot down by Russia is the same plane that crashed near Australia"

"that is what the mainstream media, Yats and Poroshenko believe."

You're wrong

JohnFarleysRuskin · 21/07/2014 17:35

Diesal, do tell us the conclusions that you draw from your 'investigations'.

claig · 21/07/2014 17:35

I didn't say that. I said only the belief that the Russians had shot MH17 down is one that the mainstream media, Yats and Poroshenko believe.

PigletJohn · 21/07/2014 17:43

as do most other people who are aware that

  • The pro-Russians and/or their Russian sponsors have shot down Ukrainian planes before
  • Russia provides the pro-Russians with heavy weapons and with trained soldiers
  • Satellite and local media recording indicate that the SAM was fired from pro-Russian occupied territory.
Driedpaintbrush · 21/07/2014 17:45

RedToothBrush

"Yes driedpaintbrush... it is a deep coincidence when you popped up, what you are interested in and what your name is. Very odd indeed.

Sorry, I don't understand your comment Confused. I guess it's meant to be sarcastic, which I don't get in response to my post. If it's not meant sarcastically, please do enlighten me.

Two large airplanes from the same airline disappearing / being shot down in a war zone within a couple of months of each other is surely unprecedented and One could say rather 'odd'.

claig · 21/07/2014 17:56

'The pro-Russians and/or their Russian sponsors have shot down Ukrainian planes before'

Yes they have shot down helicopters, a transport plane and a Ukrainian fighter jet, but none of these were flying at 33000 feet.

'Russia provides the pro-Russians with heavy weapons and with trained soldiers'

It probably allows weapons through. The Russian military leader, Stelkov, is apparently in charge of the rebels and he admits that there are volunteer fighters from Crimea, and possibly Russia too, fighting alongside the local rebels. But he blames Putin for not supplying them with enough heavy weaponry and tanks etc.

'Satellite and local media recording indicate that the SAM was fired from pro-Russian occupied territory'

Did you listen to BBC Radio 4 Today's programme this morning. The BBC said let's hear the Russian view and they interviewed I can't remember who. But he said something like Russian intelligence had tracked all radar systems active in Ukraine and that they have the signals or traces or something that two Ukrainian missile systems were active out of the 3 which they have in that area. The BBC said but what about the twitter boasts that the rebels had captured a missile system about a month ago. He said that even if they had that, they would need an air control or air defence system or something to use them because of the sophisticated radar it requires. The BBC said, but the Russian military have that. he agreed and said that so do the ukrainian military. He said that "twitter" reports are not evidence whereas the Russians have the trace evidence or whatever he called it of the exact locations of the radar systems turned on etc. He said let's wait for the full enquiry before apportioning blame.

Swipe left for the next trending thread