Part 2: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Starting a new thread as the original is almost full.

The original thread is here. It was started on 1st July after three Israeli boys were found murdered, before the murder of the Palestinian boy and the resumption of sustained rocket attacks and Operation Protective edge.

There are lots of excellent posts and links in the original thread showcasing a variety of views. The main consensus was that there is fault on both sides. We also considered various options for people on both sides of the conflict to work towards a lasting peace.

and no she hasn't said she condemns it - some side steppy nearly but not really statements about i wish there could be peace etc but no outright 'what israel is doing this week is absolutely, inexcusably wrong'. and yes, i'd find that hard to square with a person claiming to be a follower of god, whichever badge they wore.

Honeybadge - you've quite clearly said that Jews think of themselves as a superior ethnic group and act collectively in their own interest. That sounds like slating Judaism to me. For a start, Jews rarely agree on anything, let alone acting collectively.

As for condemnation, it's difficult to condemn "everything Israel does in a week", as this would include running buses and sewage works, cleaning the streets, treating patients in hospital etc. And some of thing Israel did were clearly right, like using the iron dome, protecting its civilians from being massacred by fighters coming out of a tunnel to massacre kibbutz members, etc....

er actuallly HB did not say that. I can read.

Sam honey has not said that. She said the opposite if you read her post properly.

This is not about religion. Can people who want to argue about religion please go read the first thread where we all agreed (kind of) that this wasn't a jew v muslim war.

And let's not forget the world leading cancer and Alzheimer's research, plus 1 in 4 drugs supplied to the NHS and worldwide.

No, Israel certainly cannot be condemned at every angle can it?

I think that stating that a non-practicing Jew isn't a 'true' Jew and that they are in fact thinking of themselves as ethnically superior, does make it about religion though, doesn't it?

As for supporters of israels massacre attending a demo to free Gaza. ..well I have no words.

Israel created a sham ceasefire to galvanise ground troops so that it could obliterate the few remaining palestinians it has not yet reached. If this isn't akin to a holocaust I don't know what is. As I write the palestinians are being pounded on the ground, by air, by sea. Ok so they are not being lined up and shot but they are being mercilessly killed, men women and kids. No one can accuse Israel of discrimination. Everyone in that tiny strip of land is fair game. Israel have obviously decided to go for mass murder whilst the world is busy trying to deal with the Malaysian flight disaster.

An article everyone on this thread and the last should read.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/of-course-there-are-going-to-be-casualties-when-gazans-selfishly-insist-on-living-in-civilian-areas-9612620.html

A ground offensive was imminent before the MH17 tragedy.

And for the record, no I do not agree with murder of anyone, whatever religion, shape, colour size or ethnicity they are. I do think Israelis should be able to live without having rockets raining down on their heads (if it wasn't for iron dome, goodness knows how many innocent Israelis would have died).

I want there to be a peaceful way forward. But having Hamas as 'peace partners' makes things very difficult indeed.

Quivering - I didn't see a single reference to Zionism in what HB wrote on that post. And how could Zionists consider themselves an ethnic group, as there are and always were loads of Christian and other non-Jewish Zionists? Good point about Hamas firing on a Friday, though. perhaps we should have a thread on whether they are true Muslims.

You omitted to mention the school was vacant and had been for some time.

Did you also read that the unwra has condemned and criticised Israel for its bombardment or is that unlikely to be mentioned in the Israel Times?

Glad the irony of the article was not lost on you quivering.

Are people really defending mass killing by IDF by saying they supply drugs to the rest of the world & are leading researchers? So by that notion anyone can commit crimes as long as they balance it by doing something good

No, I just cannot condemn Israel for everything it does. It does a lot of good in the world.

did somebody ask you to "condemn Israel for everything it does?"

From The HB

but no outright 'what israel is doing this week is absolutely, inexcusably wrong.

This seems to be asking us to condemn everything Israel is doing, including, for example, operating the iron dome. Maybe Israel should turn off the iron dome for a few hours so there are more Israeli casualties and the killing then looks more proportionate.

Nhing Israel does could make them appear to be acting proportionately. No one wants innocent israeli civilian deaths.

HB was referring to the actions of israel in attacking gaza and you know that Sam.

cleanmean - so the Israelis should just have sat back and let Hamas test out their new Iranian missiles on Israeli cities until they got bored of it?

Sam

do you take the view that killing 200 people will reduce anti-Israel feelings, and, later, action?

Remind me again how many Israelis have died this week courtesy of hamas firing 'new Iranian missiles' Sam.

And then please comment on reports that Israel has been using illegal experimental bombs on palestinian civilians. 23 palestinians killed today I think k amd the never risinrisinsiles

Sorry , should say and the number rising.

Thank you for the link ilovemonstersinc have made a donation

TheHoneyBadger I've reported your post about 'true Jews' because it really does read very badly and I can see why other posters have reacted as they have. I don't think that was your intention.

I think it's perfectly possible to disagree vehemently with Israel bombing civilian targets in Gaza while also exploring the reasons behind the campaign. After all, it seems to make sense to most world leaders! It wouldn't be a terribly useful discussion if we didn't have a range of opinions. I took quite a battering on the first few pages of the original thread but in a challengingly thought-provoking way rather than a personal way.