Part 2: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Starting a new thread as the original is almost full.

The original thread is here. It was started on 1st July after three Israeli boys were found murdered, before the murder of the Palestinian boy and the resumption of sustained rocket attacks and Operation Protective edge.

There are lots of excellent posts and links in the original thread showcasing a variety of views. The main consensus was that there is fault on both sides. We also considered various options for people on both sides of the conflict to work towards a lasting peace.

That letter from Dr Gillbert is so moving. What an amazing, brave human being.

Signed the petitions and a few more while i was at it.

I noticed that this e petition hasnt had that many signatures - please sign if you agree.

submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/67510

babbas That's a satirical website, thankfully. What an irresponsible way to start rumours. I mean them not you. It's difficult enough to try to get at the truth without that kind of crap being thrown in the mix.

Apologies for that link everyone. I'll ask for it to be removed. I didn't realise it was a satirical website.

13 Israeli soldiers dead - 1 captured. No statement about captured soldier from Israel. So unsure whether its true.

Around 100 Palestinians died today.

I wonder how many 'supporters of Israel' on this thread are actually from this Israeli social media "war room" t.co/BF6ufm53Gn t.co/HUrDSc1W8A

Just reading the online Guardian and I feel I may be moving towards the conclusion that Israel wants to obliterate the Palestinians from the world map.

Does that expression sound familiar? resonate? If anyone disagrees, please supply proof that Bibi is keen on securing peace and that he is not a racist war monger.

I have some questions people on this thread might he able to help with:

• in 2009 the IDF used white phosphorous in Gaza. Was this investigated at international level and what was the outcome?
• is it true that Israel is supplying and paying for construction projects, food, water and medicines in Gaza?

Thanks for that link crescentmoon - it explains everything. If it's true then at least we know the Israeli govt's true motives.

Crescentmoon I am technically useless and can't even manage links but I wish you would put that link onto twitter etc.

AndHarry according to the Harriet Sherwood article in the Guardian online I just read, the IDF eventually admitted using white phos in Gaza, having previously denied it. They are also using flechette shells which are basically an updated version of nail bombs.

The article states that the IDF has responded to a legal challenge to the use of white phos by saying it will "avoid using it in built up areas" with "two narrow exceptions". The "two narrow exceptions" are not allowed to be disclosed.

What do people think these are? I know what I think they are.

YY there has been lots of talk of Israel over the last few days that Israel is using fleshette shells. From what I can understand they are not illegal under international law but B'Tselem has stated that it is illegal to use them in Gaza. More info from the Guardian: www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israel-using-flechette-shells-in-gaza

Does that mean that Israel may use white phosphorus again then?

I have heard rumours that white suphur is being used, does anyone know anything about this?

Thanks Colgate that was the article I was reading. Wish I could do links!

i just want to weep or scream. i feel sick at the people in power in this world.

fwiw i prayed too last night and i haven't in a long time. i sat on the other side of a field i've walked in for years that is about to be built all over and watched the sunset and how beautiful it was and how much peace and perfection we have in this world and yet how much shit is being made of it. the people who do this stuff must be monsters. to value life and land and peace and plain decency so little and to constantly make the choices that destroy for the sake of money or power....

so not so much a 'prayer' but a real sense of connection with what is and is meant to be and should be and a deep grief for what is being done instead, especially in gaza right now.

no help to anyone of course. this is man made shit and if anyone can actually think this is what G_d, Allah, Jesus, any intelligent loving being would want they must be psychotic and in need of serious medication before being let lose in the world again.

Ok so the IDF changed their story on phosphorous and rewrote their policy for using it. Thanks for the links.

I read the sources quoted in The Ecologist differently to the writer. Moshe Ya'alon's comments were purely focused on the threat of revenues from gas sales going straight to fund anti-Israeli militants rather than benefitting the Palestinian people in terms of economic stability. I didn't see anything in his comments to suggest that Israel is prosecuting a military campaign to get hold of this gas for its own ends.

LOOSE! can't believe i wrote lose.

We'll forgive you this once.

The quotes where he was talking about the misuse of gas revenues were from 2007.

Now this is the kind of terrible effect conflict and propaganda have on children. How can this be addressed?

Link copied from the Chat thread.