Part 2: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Starting a new thread as the original is almost full.

The original thread is here. It was started on 1st July after three Israeli boys were found murdered, before the murder of the Palestinian boy and the resumption of sustained rocket attacks and Operation Protective edge.

There are lots of excellent posts and links in the original thread showcasing a variety of views. The main consensus was that there is fault on both sides. We also considered various options for people on both sides of the conflict to work towards a lasting peace.

Puzzled - the ceasefire red cross begged for was from Israel only

Really? Then why was this reported by Al Jazeera: The Palestinian Hamas movement said earlier that it would abide by a temporary truce??

I fully agree with you about the innocent civilians, but find it interesting that your call for people to "stop going on about Hamas" has come at such an opportune moment

I am reporting on the information I have. If any apologists have issue with that then that's fine. Lay the blame at Hamas if you prefer. I hate the tories but I won't kill everyone in London.

If Hamas fired futile rockets at israel does that give the idf the right to go ahead and murder more children. Surely they would at least allow ambulances through to collect the dead?

I am reporting on the information I have. If any apologists have issue with that then that's fine. Lay the blame at Hamas if you prefer

I'm sure you'd like to believe that's the case, Flyaway, but actually - as I've said repeatedly - I believe any issue of "blame" is a lot more complex than that

As I've also said more than once, the killing of innocent civilians is always an appalling thing, no matter who does it, but if Hamas were genuinely concerned about rescuing the wounded, it might have been better to have held onto their rockets during the ceasefire, don't you think?

Quivering why does the word apologist upset you?

In your post you are justifying not letting ambulances through. Shame on you.

Apologists please comment on the situation in sharjeya instead of focusing on how many rockets were fired.

Puzzled you know full well that the blame here is heavily weighted on the side of israel. Your sympathy for the victims appears to be very contrived.

I don't know quivering. Are you saying ambulances should not be allowed in because of that? Would you say the same if it was your child dying?

We are talking here of red cross ambulances. Think carefully before you slander their service any further. They are doing an amazing job out there.

Meanwhile in Israel the cheering continues

www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing?CMP=twt_gu

I agree with flyaway. Israel needs to stop using Hamas as an excuse to kill innocent civilians!

The cheering from some Israelis is disgusting and inhumane.

Your sympathy for the victims appears to be very contrived

I'm sorry you feel that way, though I confess it's hard to understand how condemning the killing of civilian as "appalling" in all circumstances can be in any way contrived

I fully realise that many would prefer me to join in with the cries of "it's all their fault" "no it's not, it's them" but that's not going to happen; as I've said, there's more than enough hatred flying around without me trying to add to it

One of the saddest aspects of the genocide for me is that it is ramadan for Muslims. This month is like the lead up to Christmas. To think that innocent families have been obliterated during the month they look forward to all year is very poignant.

I have muslim friends in the UK who have also been massively impacted by the genocide and have reported that instead of having a month of pea e tranquility and joy they have instead had to witness the horrors of Gaza and galvanise themselves to organise and prepare marches and fund raise.

Always a reason to justify the IDF atrocities.

There are real people dying and these israelis are watching the genocide from the comfort of a sofa on a hill top????? Where is humanity????

To become such despicable specimens of humans that watch a holocaust? How can those people stomach such scenes? How can Israeli apologists see so much evidence presented, link after link after link, from so many different sources, which show the crimes, the suffering, the obstacles raised by Israel and all its efforts to undermine the peace process, yet they continue their brainwashed rhetoric of being the victims and calling the oppressed blameworthy. Shame on you for doing so. The world watches them in disgust.

To the Israeli apologists, do you acknowledge that Israel sabotaged the peace talks by not accepting Hamas' renunciation of violence and acceptance of Israel. Your government has the blood of Israelis on its hands too.

Obama's silence is deafening......Putin dare not comment seeing as he probably supplied the STA missile which obliterated the Malaysian airplane and therefore feels compromised. So as usual the people in positions of power and influence do nothing.

DH and I both feel that it will have to take something so horrifying and unprecedented that it will force a reaction....something like Israel nuking Gaza. I expect Bibi would like to do that except its proximity to Israel is too close.

Time to reclaim the word 'holocaust' I think.

Have you noticed the sea change in the daily mails coverage of Gaza.

Considering the fact that the mail online is the most read online newspaper I am starting to feel hopeful that the apartheid state will be shown for what it is.

Quivering please have some compassion. People are being murdered and gassed and you are providing support for a regime which will not allow red cross ambulances to retrieve the bodies.

On the one hand you say you want to discuss peace with palestinian mothers and on the other you are justifying why ambulances are not being allowed in.

For any mnetters who are appalled and lurking, now is the time to post and show how appalled you are. We are all mothers and daughters. Our anger our voice needs to be heard.

at a museum. Chilling. Especially when a few miles away Palestinian children are being bombed to death so their whole generation is obliterated.

The Economist's take on recent events