Part 2: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Starting a new thread as the original is almost full.

The original thread is here. It was started on 1st July after three Israeli boys were found murdered, before the murder of the Palestinian boy and the resumption of sustained rocket attacks and Operation Protective edge.

There are lots of excellent posts and links in the original thread showcasing a variety of views. The main consensus was that there is fault on both sides. We also considered various options for people on both sides of the conflict to work towards a lasting peace.

So the the conclusion is that the Israeli government doesn't want this?
A unified Palestinian front ready to engage is, in their view, more of a threat to them?

Yes, Israel want to maintain the status quo and continue aggressive settlement building and their general oppression with blockades etc etc.

For palestinians, the status quo was unbearable. The situation even before Israel's bombing was intolerable. The Palestinians were suffering enough as it was. They want rights and freedom from oppression.

Turning a blind eye to their plight is inhumane.

I couldn't agree more Yruapita. Sadly world leaders seem, even now, to ignore their plight.
I just don't know where it will go from here:-(

Can you see a day when Israeli's and Palestinians will share power in the same way Sinn Fein and the DUP do in Northern Ireland?

Thanks for that link crescent. I think it goes a long way to explain what we have been seeing for the last week or so. I am still unclear as to why DC and Obama are giving their unconditional support to Israel what lies at the heart of that?

i've had to actually skip some posts to save myself from vomiting in disgust at how low emotional intelligence can be in supposed human beings.

a child's party had to be cancelled - i cannot actually believe i fucking read that.

oh and they have to be within 75seconds of a shelter - that's longer than a woman with sleeping children gets to evacuate her house when she gets a call to say it's about to be bombed ffs. and shelters? israel have been targeting UN humanitarian centres which are the only places that palestinians can go for shelter.

they are bombing water sources in full knowledge that gaza's water supply is on it's way out anyway.

but a child had to cancel her fucking party and citizens under an iron dome have to be within 75 seconds of government provided safe shelters.

i honestly cannot believe anyone could think such things let alone have the level of racial entitlement and superiority so entrenched that they'd say it out loud in public and expect sympathy.

i'm actually sat here shaking my head in disbelief.

if hamas wanted to do global propaganda all they'd have to do is let israel apologists speak in public and let us hear what comes out of their mouth without any self consciousness.

quivering i saw you say clearly that you do condemn the bombing of civilians - thank you, was relieved to read it and had been confused by the way so many were unable to just say it straight iyswim.

i couldn't go to the demo - too far away for me and had commitments with my son. someone did post about the one in glasgow upthread but haven't seen any feedback on the london one yet.

Hi Quivering, I was at the Glasgow demo yesterday. Posted upthread that it was an extremely inclusive event, speakers ranged from Peter Tatchell to a speaker from Jews for Justice for Palestinians to the Archbishop of Jerusalem. All warmly received (apart from the Labour Party mp!).
There was absolutely zero anti-semitism and doubt it would have been tolerated by most of the protesters if their had been.

Sadly, the death toll has now risen to over 360 with shelling continuing as we speak.

and tons more documented war crimes - all going unmentioned the world looks set to just let them be utterly destroyed in that prison.

i meant to say i was glad to see the houses of parliament clip and i have posted it on my facebook. it's not enough of course but it is reassuring to know that international law and common humanity is not entirely unrepresented by our MPs.

does anyone feel that the distance between the average informed human being and the actions of governments are getting so vastly far apart that something has to give?

i'm also aware that the average person is much better informed and that those who troubled themselves to get a broader picture is becoming a much bigger demographic so that adds to it.

it just seems between things like the war on iraq when the vast majority of people here (and a hell of a lot in america to be fair) were absolutely against it, the absolution of the banks part in the global crisis and punishment of the people instead and this standing by and witnessing of the biggest humanitarian crisis for the last 60 years that there is a growing sense that we are being ruled by money grabbing criminals who aren't even any good at hiding it anymore.

sorry random ramblings. i need to find some hope that we can effect change before even more is utterly destroyed by these psychos with arsenals at their disposal.

i know they've been posted already but i've just watched the 4th of home front videos and i found this one really emotional for some reason and so i am reposting in case anyone didn't watch them before.

no one said you weren't wanted - they suggested you'd need to do some work on yourself before reaching out. just expecting someone to accept your hand of friendship when you are a member of the oppressing class to whom most will have lost family members, homes, land, etc is rather entitled. the suggestions given were from someone with direct experience of those kind of grassroots befriending programmes - i'd have thought you might have been grateful for her experienced advice which she made very clear was not given to offend you.

Gosh TopBanana, you see someone's train journey being disrupted and a child's party being cancelled as on a par with homes being shelled, bulldozed and children being blown to pieces on a beach do you?

I have moved beyond anger on this issue; I pity the Israelis, I really do - having people like Netanyahu in charge, a war mongering racist.

Do you agree with my earlier comment which is that Likud was founded by a terrorist?

Do you think Bibi should be allowed to continue with his expansion of settlements programme? or do you see this process as a calculated act of aggression and provocation?

If someone bulldozed your farm and requisitioned the land for other people, based on their nationality, would you see this as a racist act?

Answers please.

i think it was also clear that i needed to find hope that our leaders would start actually representing us and our ethics, morals and needs and wants as human beings. i need hope that my government and others will start to impose sanctions on your government and cease giving them aid or trading with them and name their war crimes openly.

that's the hope i'm looking for. that our systems of genuine power will be brought to bear upon oppressors and stand up for the oppressed as they should and be used in the way the people want them used rather than serving the economic interests of the few.

Quivering did you read that NY Times article? Hamas did try to hand over control to the Palestinian Authority. Israel scuppered that. So I would say Israel bears full and total responsibility for the current situation.
There could have been a peace deal that would have benefited everyone.
instead, over 370 dead now and utter horror taking place at this very second.

I actually think Netanyahu is a psychopath. He's doing the israelis a huge disservice as well.
Evil man.

My family are lying dead in the morgues in Palestine as we speak. I hope those leaders who condone it, as well as those soldiers who know it's wrong but still follow orders, get completely and utterly annihilated.

There will be very very severe repurcussions for Israels terrorism on Gaza, I have no doubt about it. These leaders hate us, they couldn't give two shits if our children's heads are half blown off and they seek to preserve the illegal state that Israel is. Lets not bullshit ourselves here.
My family have nowhere to run and hide as those soldiers rampage their land and the biggest fucking terrorists in the world that are America, give their undying support to those complicit in the genocide that is going on. Any Israel supporters here should go spend a night with the kids in Palestine who have PTSD or live a life where you are under the oppression of the Israeli soldiers, amazingly arrogant human beings that they are.
Yes I'm emotional but believe me you would be too.

anyone would be too people.

i'm so sorry for your loss. are you in the UK?

Quivering that is not my understanding of it, certainly based on this article which I will re-link:
mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/18/opinion/gaza-and-israel-the-road-to-war-paved-by-the-west.html?_r=3&referrer=

ThePeoplePleaser I am very sorry for the loss of your relatives.