Part 2: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Starting a new thread as the original is almost full.

The original thread is here. It was started on 1st July after three Israeli boys were found murdered, before the murder of the Palestinian boy and the resumption of sustained rocket attacks and Operation Protective edge.

There are lots of excellent posts and links in the original thread showcasing a variety of views. The main consensus was that there is fault on both sides. We also considered various options for people on both sides of the conflict to work towards a lasting peace.

Just one post will do TB. Struggling to find one?

Yes well that's because no one has said ALL Israelis are genocidal murderers.

I wonder if TB has ever seen a stairwell that can be used as a shelter against bombs, that can be built by someone with no access to bricks or cement or steel, due to the Israeli blockade.

Here's what I ACTUALLY posted (for all those who apparently can't go back two pages):

"Wow.

According to this thread:

"Israel has no intention to stop land grabbing and murdering every last child in Palestine. History and the present has shown the Palestinians that Israeli soldiers and leaders are savages, intent on genocide. "

and

"i think israel are also resolved on a one state solution also but probably trying to kill as many palestinian women and children as possible to bring the population of Gaza down to acceptable levels. forestall the demographic timebomb as it were."

So nice, measured statements. Not the Israeli government, or a few right-wing nutters, but "Israel" apparently want to do this. So could you clarify, please - from your presumably great knowledge of Israel and Israelis' inner intentions - does this genocidal hatred and murderous intent apply to ALL Israelis?

Because it's strange and quite unaccountable - but I actually know many Israelis. And not one of them wishes to harm in any way let alone murder a single Palestinian. The ones I know would very much like to be able to go about their daily lives without having to be within 75 seconds of a bomb shelter at all times. Would like to know how to explain to their children why rockets keep being fired at them. A friend's 7 year old had her party cancelled this week due to non-stop rocket fire. Is she guilty of being a putative mass-murderer too? She's seven.

Interested to hear from those on this thread who seem to think that they are the representatives of calm, unbiased rational thought. Yruapita, crescentmoon etc."

ppigletJohn - are you seriously suggesting there are no stairwells in Gaza?

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Nowhere does it say ALL Israelis TB.

Only YOU said that.

The quotes I gave in my last post but one were from Yruapita and crescent moon, as posted on P12 of this thread.

Nope sorry no one said that all Israelis are murderers. They referred to Israel as in the government and army. Don't play thick.

And get some perspective.

It says Israel is intent on genocide. Israel is trying to kills as many palestinian women and children as possible. But Israel is a country, a bit of earth. Israel does not do these things.

Who is meant if it is not Israelis?

If what was meant was particular Israelis - the government, say - it should say that. It doesn't. I'd certainly like to find out exactly what was meant.

Oh for goodness sake TB'
You're wilfully misinterpreting that to make some sort of illogical point.

I think its cystal clear to anyone reading this thread that in the context of what is being discussed "Israel "means Israeli goverment and not every last Israeli living in Israel. HTH

In TBs fantasy world, there are lots of Israelis who don't want to kill anyone. Simultaneously, hundreds of Palestinians, many of them children, have recently been killed by Israeli forces, and an unknown number injured or maimed or psychologically damaged.

We can therefore deduce that TB does not know all Israelis, and that there is a violent and deadly force in Israel that the ones she knows either oppose, or prefer not to think about, or are killing not out of conviction, but because they are "only obeying orders."

TB still pretends to believe that a nation which is prevented, by the Israeli blockade, from having building materials, and cannot build a sewage works, sewers, a power station, or a drinking water supply, or build adequate homes, can magically construct shelters that will give protection from Israeli bombs.

TB, i will not engage with someone who wilfully tries to misconstrue what I say.

I was just about to post that link crescent , you beat me to it. Was going to highlight that bit as well! A very telling article about Israel's quest for 'peace'.

Thanks, Crescent, that explains why now. Horrendous and so desperately cynical.

Crescent I find your posts very interesting. Do you think this bombardment of Gaza will continue for some time? I read the Ban Ki-Moon is on his way to the area, do you think he has any chance of getting a ceasefire in place?
I'm interested to know your opinion.

The article you posted crescent, provides the context that's missing from most mainstream media and press. Thanks

Well crescent that article certainly fills in the missing links doesn't it. Wow. How very cynical as edam says.

backinthering: Glad the march went well and there was no anti-semitism.

Just to re-iterate what the article in crescent post states:

The Palestinian unity government formation meant that:
Hamas was ready to recognise Israel
Hamas was ready to abide by previous diplomatic agreements
Hamas was ready to renounce violence.

Israel's reaction - stop peace talks and expand settlements.

Full link:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28371966