Part 2: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Starting a new thread as the original is almost full.

The original thread is here. It was started on 1st July after three Israeli boys were found murdered, before the murder of the Palestinian boy and the resumption of sustained rocket attacks and Operation Protective edge.

There are lots of excellent posts and links in the original thread showcasing a variety of views. The main consensus was that there is fault on both sides. We also considered various options for people on both sides of the conflict to work towards a lasting peace.

PigletJohn - if you had read the posts I copied and pasted here from the Guardian, you would note that 'shelters' for Israelis does not usually mean purpose-built secure shelters. It means things the Palestinians have just as much access to as Israelis - like stairwells, the floors of trains... So I am not sure that blockades of building materials is the major factor re shelters you seem to think it is.

Word of advice topbanana, you are coming across as ridiculous. Your arguments make no sense and you really are ruining a very informative thread with your uneducated nonsense.

Intolerant and close minded describe you perfectly. Are you bibi?

I'm not arguing TB. I'm horrified! Horrified by the pictures and reports coming out of Gaza. I would be equally horrified to see the bodies of dead Israeli children but thats not what we're seeing.
You seem to rather naively take the position that if a person ( as any right thinking person would) condemns what's happening on Gaza that it follows that they support Hamas! That most certainly isn't the case.
Can you bring yourself to condemn what's happening in Gaza?

I wonder if the 7 year olds party would have been cancelled if her home had no piped drinking water, and no sewer for the toilets, and the electricity was off for an indefinite period.

I wonder if it would have been cancelled if the IDF phoned and said her house was going to be bombed.

I wonder if it would have been cancelled if she was in a village with no electricity supply, and Israel decided to destroy the solar power panels donated by Spain.

And PigletJohn, I don't think fear of rockets is equivalent to deaths, of course not. I'm not suggesting some kind of bizarre quid pro quo, where the former excused the latter (or vice versa).

I can see no reason why some on this thread have such a problem seeing that both things are wrong. Israeli and Palestinian children are both innocent children, they both deserve the kinds of childhoods we take for granted in this country, to live lives free from violence, trauma, fear.

Why is that even a remotely controversial thing to say?

How on earth can that put my view so far beyond the pale that apparently I am not even worth engaging with??!

It is not an either/or - you can be deeply saddened by the deaths of innocent Palestinian children AND feel sad that Israeli children are under constant rocket fire

Precisely, Topbana - and how nice to see some understanding of the impact on everyone involved in this hateful conflict, instead of insistence that only one group carries blame and unfortunate abuse

Let's hear that condemnation of what's happening to the people of Gaza TB.
I'm waiting......

TB and puzzled - can you see any difference between a DEAD child and an upset one?

If not I too will refrain from engaging with you.

babbas - if thinking that the situation will never be resolved as long as one side is demonised makes me ridiculous in your eyes, then hey, I'm happy to be 'ridiculous'.

I'm still waiting for a response from those who think that all Israelis are genocidal murderers. Because that's not ridiculous at all. On the contrary, on this thread that is unchallenged as utterly fair and logical.

I am sad that both Palestinian and Israeli children are in fear of an attack.

I am much much much much more sad that hundreds of Palestinians, many of them children, have recently been killed.

Fear and death are not equivalent.

Poppet - I've just said how deeply saddened I am by the death of every innocent in Gaza. Now let's have your expression of sadness for what's happening to the innocent Israelis.

No one on this thread or the last have said that all Israelis are genocidal murderers. Except for you TB.

Stop derailing the thread with your insensitive comparisons. And RTFT.

Where on this thread
has anyone said that 'all israelis' are genocidal murderers' topbanana?

Er...PigletJohn, I just said that fear and death are not equivalent.

Why do they have to be equivalent?

Should we be aiming to murder equal numbers on both sides, to make it 'fair'?

No-one on this thread have called all Israelis genocidal murderers."

Oh yes they have. See my post at

Sat 19-Jul-14 21:30:35

I was quoting verbatim from

Yruapita Sat 19-Jul-14 14:23:47

and

crescentmoon Sat 19-Jul-14 15:51:03

I can repost what they said again, if you like, but you're all capable of checking.

No, we should be aiming for no deaths on either side. To make it fair.

Ironic that you're telling me to RTFT - I've already quoted these links. Bother to read what I quoted before telling me to RTFT.

Here we are talking about the deaths of hundreds, and you throw in the cancellation of a childs party.

Choose your own word for that.

Backinthering.

My point exactly.

Not too controversial, I would have thought.
Confused: [confus

Topbanana can you read? Please find me one post which states ALL Israelis are genocidal murderers. Except yours.

Of course I feel sorry for innocent Israeli children whose lives are blighted by this conflict. That's a given.

Can you see any difference between a DEAD child and an upset one?

I'd have thought the difference was only too obvious, babbas, which is one of the reasons why you'll never see me suggest that Israel is in some way faultless in all this

The sticking point seems to be my view that others also share some blame for this descent into hell - a view which is clearly anathema to so many on this thread

I respect their right to a view too, of course, but I'm certainly not about to join the abuse which has recently broken out - it seems to me there's already too much abuse among those most affected, without us creating more

Ah, back to that one, are we, PigletJohn?

That was one tiny anecdote. No-one -except for you - is trying to turn it into the whole picture.

I assume that you do not think that everything in Israel is fine apart from the cancellation of one children's party?

flyawayaway - RTFT.

I've just checked and crescentmoon did not say that 'all israelis are genocidal murderers'