New thread re Roy Meadow (no Sir!)

[Janh]

Cheeseball, specially for you, yet another thread but without the Sir! (I'll post a link from the 2nd thread).

If what we are doing here is being radical busybodies then I am proud to be one! I am so sorry your husband feels like this and won't help you escape from the burden you are under.

Many of our MPs have now seen some details of Bunglie's case which we have forwarded to them and not one has said "you shouldn't be talking about this, you are breaking the law". Those gagging orders are so wrong and will surely be overturned before long. If you have to wait until they are before you can do something about your own case then so be it - he is wrong to be so angry with you about something that wasn't your fault but you are the one who lives with him and we can't tell you what to do.

If you get a chance do think about ringing Bunglie, you don't have to tell her your name or any details at all but I'm sure it would make you feel so much better (unless the guilt at doing it made you feel worse...)

God just typed out long message and the bl*y computer naffed up.

Bunglie you are not selfish to put yourself first. IF YOU ARE NOT ALRIGHT THEN HOW CAN YOU HELP ANYONE ELSE. That took me about 12 years to start believing that. But it is true, you have to feel good in yourself. Who you are is important, how you feel is important, What you want (within reason) is important. (Had to put with in reason as tried it on dh but he said because i wanted my own car it didn't mean he had to buy me one hahahahahahahahaha)

Your strength inspires me, your warmth comforts me and your crunching of ice pops makes me jealous.

Wish i had the time to get away but pulling a fast one (hope no teachers reading )(£100 fine coming up)SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

WHISPER (On tuesday going out with kids, twins share same birthday with dd, having day out in town seeing sights, having picnic, good laugh i hope)

I will bid all good night with this thought

"At night i lay on my bed looking up at the sky, the twinkling stars, the moon, listening to the wind in the trees, and i ponder and think?????????????????????????????????

Where the f*s my roof"

postsue, you are remarkable with every emotion that you are feeling right now you still have the ability to have a SUPERB SENSE OF HUMOUR!!!

and to share that humour with us!!

Thanks for giving me my first laugh of the morning!!! :0

Bunglie, you are a sweetheart. Have a drink if you want one. Goodness knows you deserve one. Have one for me next time.

Did you know some social workers say that you can 'diagnose' MSBP even if the children aren't being harmed in any way? Can you imagine if people were, say, being diagnosed with any other mental or personality disorder and having their perfectly healthy and happy children taken away from them because of it? Even if MSPB was a real condition (which I am extremely sceptical about) it is not a crime to have a mental disorder, yet it seems we have been encouraged to believe that it is such a terrible crime that these women must be punished by having their children snatched - even if they are totally unharmed.
The truly frightening thing about MSBP is that anything a mother does can be seen as a symptom. Be angry with the medical staff and push for more tests? MSBP. Be cooperative and friendly? Aha! MSBP.
I think there are a lot of men out there (any coincidence that all the specialists in MSBP are men?) who do think that most women are unreasonable, 'hysterical', irrational and, I'm afraid, crazy.

Beetroot, don't you think Bunglie's story would make a stunning drama-documentary? So powerful and moving. Like a Cathy Come Home for the 21st Century.

Why is it that the more I read about this, the more I'm convinced that the "reviews" which are supposedly taking place are not going to put an end to the injustice? Have just seen this which points out that in cases where there was only one medical witness - even if it was one of those whose "evidence" has now been discredited - the cases don't fall within the scope for the review.

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Twiglett, sounds like the medical establishment in a panic to me.

I've just e-mailed the Today programme pointing out that the hate the medical experts are being subjected to is nothing compared to the hate shown by the medical, legal and ss professions to mothers who were caught in the Kafka-esque situation of being diagnosed with MSBP. I agree with Aloha - I think MSBP is yet another male fantasy, like Medea. If anyone else wants to e-mail them, I think their address is [email protected]. The more people who jump up and down and shout the truth when reports like that on the Today programme are broadcast, the more likely it is that the voices of innocent mothers will be heard.

Could anyone give me a quick lesson on English government. Who picks the Children's Minister. Who picks the judge who heads the Family Courts? Who would be in charge of ordering further inquiry into the practices of Social Services? I want to write some letters, but I'm not sure who to direct them to.

Terrible isn't it that the press (and public?) is more concerned with getting a few drunk footballers out of jail, than the 248 falsely convicted mothers (is that figure right?).

Ha! Finally heard from Harriet Harman's office today after leaving a very angry message saying that as a constituent I found it hard to contemplate voting for an MP who didn't even bother to acknowledge emails and phone messages, let alone reply to them. It was only a call to say the person would ask her parliamentary office to contact me, though, so let's see what happens now.

Will email the Today programme.

Dear All,
I have had a very active and harrowing 36 hours. I shall try to descibe the events accuretly and simply but please forgive me if the turns into a long posting.
Firstly something I have always said is that I do not wish my ds or dd to be put in a a postion where they have to choose between the ap's and myself. I have always felt that if we could work together that this would be to the benefit of the children, in helping them to come to terms with the facts that surrounded their adoption.
Yesterday I received a letter from the adoption agency ( yes the one that the 'am's on the board of governers of), In a nutshell the letter told me that the matter of telling my ds the circumstances that surrounded his adoption was not in the childrens best interest as they were too young still to understand AND that I should work with the AP's with reagrd to this matter as they had shown a commitment to both myself and the children by 'encouraging' ongoing communication over the years.
I was seeing 'RED', What the hell did they think I had done. I had written to the ap's a very long, honest letter,posted on 1/2/04, that took me a long time to construct, asking for their assistance. I shall make a seperate posting of this letter and you can judge for yourselves if you think it was fair. The Ap's did not even acknowledge receipt of this letter and yet they did not think the children 'too young' to give my ds a letter from the ss giving the circumstances surrounding his adoption, written ten years ago and based on Meadow's evidence to the court. You can bet it did not tell them that I had loved them and fought for them. Sorry- I shall try to keep this to the point and I am sure you can understand what I mean.
I telephoned the Adoption agency, and the woman was not their but I told them why I was phoning, (calmly) and was assured that she would phone me yesterday afternoon. She did not. Who did phone me was the Adoptive father, (af), at just gone 6pm, who is normally very reasonable but in this instance he was defensive to the point of being agressive. Do you think that it can have been the contents of my letter to them? I just don't know, what I do know is that anything I said that I thought would reassure them of my motives was 'shot' down and I was told that this could all wait and be discussed when we meet. Hence we arranged a meeting in a neutral place over a pub-lunch. He firmly but politely put the phone down on me. It did become apparent that my agenda and their agenda were not the same I think it is obvious that their objective is to get me to 'back down' from telling the children anything.
This morning the woman did phone me, from the adoption agency. She felt that I could ask for nothing more, I have the meeting that I want and continued to stress to me that I was 'very lucky' to have had adoptive parents who have done all they could to mainatain contcact with the birth parents. She could not understand that this had been because I had let them get away with missing contacts, put up with their open insults over the years and NOT ONCE had they freely and for the benefit of the children arranged a contact meeting without me 'pushing' for one that was overdue. I have never had what the court promised me in the way of contact. I have always felt as if I should be eternally grateful for the contact that I was being given. (A meal, in a public place, a couple of times a year!), and that I could not question anything or I would loose what contact I did have. The children have been taught to lie, even when I made it clear that it was not necessary, well I could go on but it just makes me angry to think that I have put up with this all these years and yet they are getting the credit and I am being told 'how lucky I am'.
Finally I asked, if she felt the children were not old enough to hear the truth then would she ask the ap's not the give my dd the letter from the ss written 10 years ago. I got a very firm 'NO!' It seems that is my dd's right and the letter will not give her more information than she can handle. The fact that it is based on lies (from my point of view) does not come into it. I have been told I can not stop her from getting this letter.
I have spent all day tryig to phone the solicitors that Leigh-Day told me to contact, with regard to this but no one answers their phone. I have not heard back from my MP who I sent an email to asking him to contact the ss on my behalf and to ask them to withdraw the letter.
It seems my children are old enough to be told lies but not the truth, and yes I am angry, Bloody angry (20p in swear bottle), and I realise that this is not constructive, so if there is anyone out there who can help me calm down and see a different side to this I am all ears.
A rather upset and sad Bunglie today

Bunglie, I can't help you with a different viewpoint - I am equally mad on your behalf.

But your son is an adult - so they can't dictate to you about him? Or at least, they can only do so by threatening to withhold further access to your daughter?

I'm sorry you haven't been able to get hold of anyone at the solicitor's. Hope you can soon - you need to speak to someone who knows whether they are entitled to do this.

Bunglie - get back in contact with Leigh and Day and tell them you are having no joy with the solicitor they suggested. Oh, and for what it is worth, I cannot believe the situation you find yourself faced with. It is horrific. Don't give up though - you have to keep pressing for what is right. Thinking of you.

Lucky?? Are they mad. How dare they call you. They are all covering their backs and are tied up with fear and guilt and the knowledge they did something wrong and are terrified of it getting out. This is not about the children, this is about them. But don't get mad. Get even. Your kids deserve the truth. They need to know they were loved. They can't stop you telling the truth to your kids. If they even try, then defy them. I am nearly as angry as you Bunglie! I wouldn't even bother meeting them, personally. They've done nothing but hurt you, you owe them nothing. You are a very brave woman and it distresses me that you still have to put up with this sh*t.

Sorry if this is a stupid suggestion but could you take someone (Aloha??) along with you for this meeting - maybe having some support would help you put things eloquently without getting distressed.

The APs sound like they are living in cloud fucking cockoo land - they are goign round and round in circles and tying themselves in knots - what people do when they are lying or trying to make rasons fit their agenda.

Sad thing is that they probably won't have a relationship with your DD and DS if they carry on like this -I would also report the AA if you can - there must be someone who you can report them to??

Big hug to you Bunglie - I am fuming/livid/fucking angry on your behalf - you seem to be taking one step forward and a couple back - this has got to come to a fantastic end with you and your children being together and happy - I am crossing fingers and praying to that extent.

Twinkie XXX

I'm so sorry at this turn of events, Bunglie, it's just awful. How ridiculous of them to say your ds isn't old enough to hear the truth. He's old enough to vote, drink, smoke, have sex and get married, for crying out loud, so why can't he learn his own history?? I've no idea what you can do next but if my thoughts and wishes are of any use, then they are yours.

bunglie, don't give up. It seems to me that the ap's were dishonest in the adopting of your children (on the board of aa, not keeping up with court ordered visits etc.) and they are now realizing their position and are worried. As before (when your children were stolen from you) you are being made into the victim/scapegoat. Don't let them do it. Stand strong and by your instincts. Of course your children are old enough to know the truth. Especially since the truth is that they have a wonderful loving mother (NOT that their mother tried to kill them when they were young). Do contact the person you spoke to at Leigh and Day and say that you are having trouble contacting the solicitor and ask if they could give you some alternative names. Give your mp a call. Put your anger into action or it will burn you up. I will write more later when I'm at home.

Bunglie

I would tell them that the APs and the AA that the adoption of your two children is cloaked in lies and duplicity. The APs have had the enjoyment of your family at your expense for many years and that is now coming to an end. You only wish for you children to know the truth and no child is too young to know the truth. That their lies will be exposed is their problem not yours. The time for truth to out has come!

They have taken what was yours by right and now you are going to do anything in your power to make good to your children what they have lost.

I don't think you can expect them to see things from your point of view. But you do not need to anymore. You do what you think is right for your children and be done with all the lies of the past.

They are behaving in a terribly selfish way - trying to clasp what was never rightly theirs to their chests in the vain hope that the skeltons of the past stay locked in the darkest recesses of their wardobes! Please let some light into your childrens lives they need you to, they need to know you didn;t and haven;t given up without a fight!

Be strong. Be strong. Be strong.
You will get there and you deserve to get there soon!

Jxx

I have thought about posting the letter that I sent them here but in retrospect I feel that this would be wrong as it was a personal letter from me to them and there would be too many 'blanking' out of names etc, for it to make a lot of sense.
The overall format of the letter acknowledged them as the childrens parents and that I thankd them for careing for them and giving them opportunities, and dispite everthing they are and always will be the childens parents. I stated that this should not be an arena where the children are asked to make a choice,and as adults we should be able to find some common ground where the children can be told the truth, and with both of our help maintain the stability of the knowledge that they are loved. I also put in that although they are the childrens parents, and I acknowledge them as such they have to realise that I am their birth parent, and that I at no point tried to harm either of them and that I loved them both and always had. That this in no way diminished the feelings that they had for the children and If we worked together then this would be of benefit to the children to help them except it with as little trauna and as much support as possible. I aslo told them about the criminal case against me, how I had been cleared and that my reason for wanting them to know the truth now was the publicity about Meadow's would not make them feel as if they were isolated cases but more importantly that my ds had cut off contact since receiving his letter from the ss.and I felt I should be able to give him my side of the story. (I doubt they know of his contact, and I am not going to tell them, but they have been made to chose simply by their behaviour).
I just really want to get to know my children and for them to know that it is alright for them to get to know me and to stop my dd from getting a letter from the ss and be able to tell them both the truth, when I have got to know them as young people.
If the ap's do not help, and will not allow them to meet me then they are in a way asking the children, sorry young people, to choose.
Does this make sense to anyone? I am confusing myself now, I think I am tired and need a sleep.
I am sorry- perhaps it was wrong of me to involve you.