Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

Sir Roy Meadow to face inquiry

348 replies

musica · 18/12/2003 14:56

Here's the story

OP posts:
tamum · 21/02/2004 14:06

Bunglie, that is just so heartbreaking. I truly wish I could give you a real hug (and your dd to be honest, she sounds lovely). The adoptive parents sound completely screwed up. Maybe the only way they could deal with the whole situation was to believe that you were bad in some way, and they're actually guilt-ridden now? Oh, I don't know, nothing excuses it. I would certainly try and send the letter to your ds, and just hang on in there with your dd.

I am just so sorry, Bunglie, you sounds such a wonderful mother. xx

jmg · 21/02/2004 14:19

Bunglie, you poor poor thing! How distressing that must all have been. I now think that you must contact your son as soon as possible. If you tell him your story (and maybe print out this thread for him to show him the support you have got) then he is bound to tell your daughter.

It is important that you do this soon as she needs to know what the other day was all about and have enough information to make some sense of what was going on. Then at least they have each other to talk to about the situation. They really do deserve to know the circumstances and are old enough to make up their own minds about what has gone on.

I think you have given the APs a fair chance and they have not reciprocated - I really don't see that you owe them any more consideration. They sound very controlling. They may indeed be very frightened about the future now, but they seem to be thinking about their needs and concerns rather than those of the children.

Lots of hugs too!

snowbird · 21/02/2004 14:27

Bunglie
I'm so sorry it didn't go as you planned but you did nothing wrong. I don't know what is going through the APs minds.
I do think that your ds & dd deserve to know the truth, please don't feel that you should't tell them. Your dd sounds lovely and I'm sure her knowing the truth will bring her back to you.
I hope I haven't upset you or said something I shouldn't, I just wanted you to know that I'm thinking and praying for you that your babies come home to you.
Love and hugs
Snowbird xxxxx

Bunglie · 21/02/2004 15:01

Thank you. I think I will take a while to calm down, and start to try and think rationally, and not let my emotions rule my actions. I am in a complete turmoil at the moment and I just need to think things through. I want them to know the truth but I wonder if that is for my benefit, not in their best interest.
PLEASE - any Quakers out their do not think that I have stereotyped you, I do not understand what your beliefs are but I wish I had known about jewelery. Is it really true? I always thought that a Quaker was a very enviromentally conscious person who was very un-selfish and had a fundamental Christian belief. I remember when in the court they would not 'swear an oath on the bible as they affirmed' When I asked why I was told by the am that it is an insult to ask a Quaker to 'swaer on the bible' as it is a fundamental principal that Quakers do not lie. Please if anyone knows about quakerism could they email me, so I do not make anymore 'blunders'?

aloha · 21/02/2004 15:08

Dear, dear Bunglie, please don't despair. Really don't.

  • You have done NOTHING wrong. The adoptive 'parents' (you are the real parent, of course) are clearly very rattled and frightened, probably because they KNOW you are telling the truth and your children were stolen from you.

  • All their excuses make me sick. Of course Teasmaids aren't dangerous or about to banned! They've just been put back into the Lakeland catalogue for God's sake. And the comments about her picture were plain nasty and thoroughly unChristian to boot. How dare they speak to you like this! How DARE they?

  • You MUST send the letter to your son. It is a beautiful letter. He clearly doesn't love his adoptive parents. An 18-year-old does separate himself from his beloved sister and live alone in a bedsit if he loves his parents. And frankly, they sound mad and strange religious extremists (don't believe in jewellery - oh, what rubbish) so I'm not surprised he isn't close to them. He DESERVES to know he was always loved by you, that you never rejected him and will always love him. We all need to know that. There are lots of threads on Mumsnet with women talking about how painful it is, even in adulthood, to believe you weren't loved as a child.

  • Don't trust the APs any more. They have badly let you and the children down IMO. Send the letter before they try to stop you or feed your son with poisonous lies.

  • PLEASE send the letter. How can it harm him to know he was - and is - loved by his own real mother?

I wish you happiness in the future Bunglie. You deserve it.
xxxxx and A BIG HUG!

aloha · 21/02/2004 15:11

Just seen your second post. Bunglie, you didn't make any blunders at all. They may be Quakers, but they certainly aren't nice or good people. They don't have any control over you any more - please let your son know you love him. If he was living with you (as he should be) you wouldn't hesitate to tell him. It is NOT selfish to tell your children you love them. Please send it.

Angeliz · 21/02/2004 15:13

Bunglie, after reading more of this thread i would DEFINATELY agree with Aloha. Send the letter, in my opinion it would never harm someone to know that they were always loved and wanted. At leats they will know the truth and can put the blame where it should be. On the so called proffesionals and not on you+++

wayward · 21/02/2004 15:14

Bunglie, I am so very sorry that things did not go well. I have had you in my thoughts.
I do not think that these people are typical Quakers, I think they are feeling very threatened and are frightened by the prospect of the truth. I do not know anything about Quakers but I do know that any reasonable person would see that you had 'bent over backwards' to accommodate them.
Do tell your dd and ds. Your ds has to know now and it will harm him more growing up believing a lie. I am certain that he is desperate to know the truth and it seems that the ap's have not helped in this. I do think that if you can get counselling support that it would be good for you both, but don't let this latest set back stop you from fighting for the justice that you deserve.
I also HATE 'The Meadows Man' and I have no direct reason for doing so. So stop thinking of others for a minute and take time out for yourself, go and 'dunk' a biscuit in a cup of tesco's tea! (I drink that too - Yuk to the other stuff, I like mine with lots of caffiene and all the stimulants I can get or what's the point of drinking it), I think a teasmade was a lovely idea and YOU DID NOTHING WRONG.
Lots of Hugs Thinking of you ()

aloha · 21/02/2004 15:22

Bunglie, it is also clear that having been so terribly hurt and abused by the legal system and doctors and social workers and now your children's aps, you no longer believe in yourself or have a lot of confidence. Remember, they hurt you but you don't have to be their victim forever. I think it is time you decided to tell the truth and do the right thing by YOUR children. Lift the shadow of that terrible, evil man from your life and that of your children.

ponygirl · 21/02/2004 15:26

Hello, Bunglie. I haven't posted here before but I've been following it and wanted to let you know how warm, brave and wonderful I think you are. You've been through so much and still retain such dignity, compassion and concern for others, it is truly impressive. Please send your beautiful letter to your son: both and your daughter deserve to know the truth, everyone deserves that, and however confusing they may find it, the truth is the best thing for them, to know that you love them and always will.

Please give no more thought to the aps, they are putting themselves first, not your children. They need to know the truth. I agree with Aloha - your ds would certainly not have moved out to live in a bedsit if he had been remotely happy at home with the aps. Sounds to me like he really needs his mum right now - and that's YOU.

Lots of love and hugs to you. xxx

suedonim · 21/02/2004 15:35

Bunglie, I'm so sad after reading your post, you must be suffering so much. Everyone else is giving you good advice so I just wanted to comment on a couple of things. Firstly, I know some Quaker people and they are nothing like the Quaker ap's you describe. The ones I know are kind, tolerant and gentle people.

And secondly, I get the impression that your dd was very receptive towards you and was reaching out to you in spite of the ap's attempts to put you down. I think she was quite brave to actually try on the jumper you made, as she must have been aware of her ap's disapproval. And also, she gave you a present, again presumably of her own free will and against their wishes. Another plus is that she wanted to give the goodie bag to your ds. I think she sounds rather feisty and I believe you have hope for the future with her, even if today is looking bleak.

I wish you all the best, Bunglie, I truly do.

twiglett · 21/02/2004 15:49

message withdrawn

angelinaballerina · 21/02/2004 16:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

aloha · 21/02/2004 16:08

I agree with Suedonim, it must have been hard for your daughter to be so nice to you in front of her obviously hostile aps. She clearly wants a relationship with you - the picture in the frame and the gifts and trying on the sweater all prove that. And that's what's important - NOT what the aps think. They needn't be in your life at all very soon.

aloha · 21/02/2004 16:10

Angelinaballerina, I think you must be confused. Bunglie has never mentioned a stepmother and the main witness against her was Roy Meadows, which is why this thread has this title. Bunglie has been shy of writing all the details as there is a legal injunction forbidding her from telling her story. Luckily, she is gaining the confidence to fill in the picture a little more and I am incredibly glad that she feels she can do this in a sympathetic environment after all those years of hell.

aloha · 21/02/2004 16:14

Sorry, I was wrong, there was a mention of a stepmother in Bunglie's 18 December post. I think she explains about the rare illness that led to the false diagnosis of MSBP and that she was acquitted of any crime in open court.

Bunglie · 21/02/2004 17:17

To save confussion, here is the story again, a bit garbled and dijointed but I have tried to put as much in without identifying myself or the children.
My dd was 2 and she developed speech delay and had several seizures. I took her to the hospital (after a referral from my GP) and this was for investigations. She had a brain scan and an EEG which were both abnormal, at the time I did not know this and the consultant was a 'friend' of Meadows and spoke to him on the telephone. Most people think that Meadows was a psychiatrist or something, he was only a peadiatric consultant at ST James's Hospital in Leeds. He sugested that as the mother herself had an illness, (which my daughter could have inherited) that was so rare that it could have been facticious and that I was seeking attention through my dd, and creating her illness. Their telephone conversation was on the Wednesday and I was arrested on the Friday. I was so shocked, interviewed by the police for over 4 hours (I still have a copy of the tapes), and locked up. In the meantime my dd was in hospital and I did not know what was wrong, no one would tell me anything and because the police did not give me my medication by the morning I was in the local hospital intensive care department. I had a police guard on my bed, although I was on a ventilator for part of the time. 3 weeks later the police took me from the hospital, with a nurse escort, to the police station, charged me with 'Attempted Murder' which was later altered, and I was taken to the magistrate court that afternoon, with the nurse, where I was granted bail whilst in hospital, (and had to return to the court in 6 weeks, when they sent my case to the crown court.) I was returned to the hospital later that day and stayed in hospital for a further 4 weeks before being discharged home. In the mean time I had been granted access to my children and so the police who were going to refuse me bail, at the next court appearance changed their minds. I had to wait 18 months until the criminal case was heard. Part of the delay was that the prosecution kept getting adjournments because they could not find anyone to prosecute me. When it did finally come to court I was acquitted after 3 weeks, I did not have to offer a defence the judge decided that 'There was no case to answer' as the prosecution had not proven their case and it came out during the trial that my daughter whilst in hospital had been the recipient of a drug prescribing error which accounted for the drug levels in her blood. So I was cleared by the criminal court and the social services were asked to return my children. They refused. In the previous 18 months they said they had further evidence as to the fact that I had this MSBP because Meadows had spoken to my stepmother. My relationship had broken down with her when I was about 14 but I guess the final straw for me (back then) was being told that "she did not want the children she only wanted the man", my father. I never had a good relationship with her and we kept out of each others way, the rest of my family gave evidence on my behalf to the court saying what my 'mother' was like, but the judge said that it had been 2 years, the children could not be rehabillitated with me due to time and the differences between their expert witnesses and ours were "Intractable". So the Judge erred on the side of caution, he put my children first, which is quite correct and chose to disregard all of my expert witnesses who testified that I had this rare illness, did not have MSBP or would never dream of harming either of my children. At one point early on in the proceedings I was given the choice of having just my son back, but I thought that this would be too distressing for his sister and felt it best they were together. I still honestly thought that it was all a mistake and that they would realize. When the judge said "The order is granted. The wards are released for immediate adoption" It was like I had been stabbed in the heart, I can not explain the pain. But I was lucky. I was not put in prison. I was found innocent by one court and guilty by the other. I have never expected anyone to believe me but that is the truth. I did not and never would do anything to harm either of my children. Where I live now no one knows about this except ONE hospital consultant, who I see regularly. You see they did not just "gag" me but they sealed all the papers and that included my medical records. When I moved I had to go through all the tests again so that they could confirm the diagnosis. They accept my diagnosis and there is a letter in my notes at the hospital that states despite a previous accusation I do not have Munchausens Syndrome.
The only expert witness that the social services had was Professor Roy Meadows. I had 3 very eminent neurologists, a very well known pschiatrist and several other doctors but they were all critisized because they had made no attempt to speak to Meadows. Roy Meadows, never interviewed me, saw my medical notes or spoke to a doctor who had treated me and yet they believed him, his facts and figures.
If I am very honest at one point I almost began to think that I did have this illness as it justified what had happened. I was lucky I had a GP who believed in me, she went to the social service case conferences, but I remember her saying that she felt unable to contradict them in case they did not invite her again and that it was as if they all sat around egging each other on as to what a bad mother I was. They portrayed me as a self centered monster. I can not prevent anyone from believing that but I would like my children to be able to read all the witness statements, I have kept, and make up their own minds. I do not say I would have been the perfect mother but I do know that I did my very best for the 3and 1/2 years that I had them. They were both conceived and born out of love and I want them to know that. I think I have told you all too much, but even after all these years I still feel that I have to justify myself. I am sorry if you think I have deceived you all in anyway, I did not mean to.

wayward · 21/02/2004 17:39

Bunglie, you do not have to justify yourself to me. I DO and ALWAYS have believed that you would never harm your children and that you are a victim of Meadows.
God - it is more awful than I had even imagined. To take you to court from a hospital bed, not tell you how your sick child is and accuse you of attempted murder. You are a strong person, you have had your self confidence knocked out of you and I wish that you could tell your story because I am certain that you will be believed. You are not lucky becuase you were not imprisoned, you have been in your own prison for years. God how could we as a society let this happen?

SofiaAmes · 21/02/2004 17:40

Bunglie, please please please send the letter to your son. I think it is the only way that you can free them from the horrible prison that they are clearly in. The best thing that can happen is that he tells your daughter and together they can fight to have you as their mother like you should always have been. The adoptive parents are awful people and do not deserve any more of your time or respect. Your daughter is old enough that she can see you and have a relationship with you whether or not they approve. And I am 100% sure that given all the doubts about Roy Meadows, no one would even dream of trying to prosecute you for breaking the "seal" on the court order. I am so angry and upset on your behalf, I just don't know what to do.

aloha · 21/02/2004 17:49

Oh Bunglie, you cannot still believe that the judge was 'correct', can you? He was so wrong. Your story is hearbreaking and you cannot be described as lucky in any way. I can't imagine anything worse than having my child stolen, except having him die. Please, we do believe you. Your children will believe you. Remember, this happened to thousands and thousands of other women. I am totally convinced of both your complete innocence and your love for your children.

spacemonkey · 21/02/2004 18:07

bunglie, please do send your beautiful letter to your son. It is very important that he knows the truth. My heart goes out to you X

angelinaballerina · 21/02/2004 18:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

musica · 21/02/2004 18:32

Bunglie, you are such a strong woman - no-one deserves what you have had dealt to you. I fervently would like to see Meadows locked up and the key thrown away, and what is more, to be told by all these women he has wronged what his effect on their lives has been like.

You must keep going - your children cannot be oblivious to what is going on in the media, and I am sure they will come back to you, if not as children, as your son and daughter. Once your daughter is 18, surely the adoptive parents have no hold on her.

My prayers are with you . xxx

OP posts:
stace · 21/02/2004 18:39

Bunglie and Cheeseball hugs to you both, i have spent the best part of the day reading the entire threads of yours, i think you are the strongest bravest people i could imagine. I cannot begin to even imagine the pain you have suffered and unfortunately are still being caused to suffer. I am so pleased that you have found this support group to build your esteem and send you love and support as much as you need. Bunglie IMO i think you need to really focus on the titbits from your daughter, it sounds clear that she was sending you really warm messages, the personal piece of art work, her delight at the jumper (she made the effort to put it on) the delight at the teas made which must of been just really really personal let alone the necklace which whatever belief system you belong to must have been really special to any 17 year old girl. You gave no indication that she showed you any hostility or apathy etc and it sounds to me like she was desparately trying to send you messages without hurting (or possible incurring the anger of) her AP's. It also sounds like she really wants to share her (however slight) relationship with you with her brother. Their AP's sound quite emotionless and harsh and one does not know what they know or what they believe but we can all be really sure that they are really threateaned by your emerging strenth in the situation. Who knows how guilty they feel inside for not having listened or heard the truth/their own part in continuing the awful damaging lies to the children.

As far as your son is concerned im really really sorry to maybe put another slant on this but i couldnt sleep if i didnt give my true and honest point of view on this. I think that you should be extremely careful how much information you give him in the way of a letter. Especially in the first instance. If i were to receive your letter although eventually i am sure that i would settle down and come to you. I think initially it would blow my mind and my world apart. When you are 18 or 28 or 48 we all live in our own world one that we believe in and to have our truth as we know it dispelled overnight would be quite harrowing too. They will both need alot of time and support to come to terms with the anger and loss of thier own lives too (as they could have been )and my feeling is that they need alot of support physically, emotionally and a lot of time too. Im sorry if this upsets you i am sure (really really really sure that in time you are going to have the most amazing relationship with both your children!!!) My best advice is tread carefully, try to speak to them about it all in person, try to get them to ask as many questions instead of you giving them the information. Teenagers are by nature self absorbed and obsessed and they may even need to strike out abit at you.

You have been unbelievable strong and i have the deepest respect and admiration for you and would be happy to have you lean on me whenever you want. You are definetely the least selfish person i have ever come across and i must have shouted at my computer everytime you called yourself selfish.

You will win the ultimate battle, you will be vindicated (you and cheeseball too!!!!) you will have the love of your children and now all the MN's too, you are both amazingly special people and finally i am writing to my MP too!!!

Really sorry if this has upset anyone i just felt i had to write from the heart as i am an eternal devils advocater!!! Huge love sent to you both. XX

stace · 21/02/2004 18:55

One other thing. can you somehow request a copy of the letter your son received from Social Services when he was 18 it may help for you to know what he has been told.

Really really hope my post didnt upset you it was sent with huge empathy and love!