Sir Roy Meadow to face inquiry

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Here's the story

Bunglie, it breaks my heart imagining you at that court, trusting in justice after "no case to answer" to do the right thing and give your children back to you, and then being told that after such a long delay (only caused because no-one would prosecute you because there was no case to answer and they all knew it) the children had been gone too long...

Where is your stepmother now? Do you ever see her? Does she realise what she did?

Your daughter sounds like such a lovely girl and I'm sure she will come to you willingly as soon as she's free to. Even allowing for their insecurity and nervousness the APs sound like cold, selfish and unloving people - not as I have always imagined Quakers.

I don't know what to suggest about your son and the letter - I think stace makes a good point about not giving him too much information too soon, but what to omit and how to word it is beyond me. She's right too about teenagers being very self-absorbed, and of course boys are generally not good at talking about feelings anyway, so it may take a little while to get through to him, but I bet your daughter will help. Please don't despair or give up hope or think you aren't good enough for them - you are the best mother they could have. xxx

Bunglie - just to say I too think you should send the letter. It is time your son knew the truth. he may find it difficult to deal with, but how much worse to feel himself abandoned by his mother? Your daugher sounds lovely and it does seem that she was reaching out to you. I think you have behaved quite properly to the APs and they have repaid you by behaving in what seems to me to be a despicable fashion. You must put your children first now and they need to know the truth about what happened to you.
I can't stop thinking about your story Bunglie.
x x x

Just to say, I thought your letter was beautiful and perfect as it was. I suspect he's quite unhappy right now, fearing that he has no family at all. You can give him the gift of love and family.

Thank you for asking, I cheered myself up last night. I could not sleep and so turned on the computer and looked at ebay!!! Dangerous thing to do when feeling a bit low. Still I found a beautiful dark green 100% silk Laura Ashley Ballgown, It is beautiful.....embroidered bodice, full skirt, yards of flowing silk ....I was in love, so I decided that I needed to cheer myself up, a bit of retail therapy usually works wonders and so I put in a bid £1O.01p (P&P was £2.00). I am now the proud owner of a beautiful dress and I do not know when I shall ever wear it but it did cheer me up!!! Does anybody else ever do silly things like that?
I have stopped bursting into tears every ten minutes. In retrospect I can see that things were not as bad as I had thought and 'Yes' I think my dd was probably very confused but she did have the courage to put on the jumper and her picture is beautiful that she gave me. But, even better I forgot to tell you before she left, the am was saying 'come on, we have a long journey.....etc etc.' and despite this she asked the ap to take a photograph of the two of us with her digital camera. I think that must have taken some courage and the ap was actually more worried about displeasing the am and took the picture really quickly. But that is really good isn't it?? I do not understand how I had forgotten.
You ask about my stepmother. Shortly after I had 'lost' the children my father died, she 'forgot' to tell me and when I read his obiturary in the Telegraph I phoned the undertaker and was told that 'my mother' had left instructions that I was not to be given any information. I later discovered that the AP's took the children to his funeral on the condition that I did not go. My Step mother lives about ten miles away from where they live and the court granted her access as she is their 'maternal grand-mother'. She has taken them on at least two holidays a year, Disney Land, Cruises, this last summer they went across Alaska by train and then Cruised the Pacific to Hawaiai. I can not compete with that. The AP's never discuss her with me, the children never tell me but I have several close friends who do tell me what is going on and that is how I found out about where they live etc. I do not know what my step-mother has said to them because she must be very worried now that they will find out how she lied to professor Meadows.
It has always hurt me that the court gave me more access than my Step-mother yet I see them less and have always had to 'fight' for my right and yet they use her like a 'baby sitting service'. I do not really understand my step-mother, I am a little bitter, but I am grateful that she has offered the children a certain degree of continuity and given them things I could never afford. I do not think she will have told them anything nice about me.
Do you think I should contact her, I would find it difficult but if it meant finding out about my son I would? What do you think???
I think I shall try and stay happy for the rest of the day and dream of my ebay purchase....I know it's sad, perhaps I should start a thread, 'Ebay addiction when depressed'?
Love Bunglie

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The ballgown sounds absolutely beautiful - hope you will have somewhere to wear it in celebration soon!

Bunglie, everything you have told us about your daughter's reactions during during her visit sounds really positive. Maybe she already knows something about Professor Meadow? Wanting a photo of the two of you and making the APs take it despite "having a long journey" (honestly! That's as feeble as not having space in the car for DS's presents!) shows clearly how she feels. The APs were bloody rude apart from anything else, poor lass must have been squirming.

Your stepmother sounds like a very devious and manipulative person and I should think she is worried. Have you come across any of Twinkie's threads about the residency battle over her DD? She has a stepmother just like that, who took the other side - probably for similar reasons ("wanting the man but not the child" ) - she has now had her come-uppance and I hope yours does too!

Your step-monster sounds a thoroughly evil person to me. As Twiglett says, she's not even a blood relative (and I speak as a stepmother!!). Twinkie had a similar experience with her stepmother so it seems the stereotype of the wicked stepmother has some truth in it, sadly.
I'd steer well clear of the nasty witch, you don't need horrors like her in your life. You know where your son lives, you don't need her, she'll just bring you down, she cannot bring anything good or positive to your life. Send the letter to your son and begin pulling your real family together again. I think the photograph is SUCH a good sign. Your daughter sounds like a good, brave, determined soul who clearly wants to be with you more. I think it is vital that you send the letter to your son before she gets a letter from social services perhaps saying that you tried to hurt her.

I wish I had the courage to do something like buy a ballgown when I didn't actually need it for something. I have travelled all over the world, owned my own businesses and taken life risks that most people couldn't even imagine, but buying a £10 ballgown on ebay ...I would never dare.
I agree with Aloha,, please send the letter to your son right away. What an evil stepmother you have. It takes a truly wicked person to not let a person know that their father has died. I'm so sorry that you have had so many awful things happen to you. You clearly don't deserve it and I am sure that your story will have a happy ending. And that you will get to be a mother to your children AND someday a grandmother to theirs. Please don't even begin to think that it matters that your stepmother has taken your children on expensive holidays. I am sure that given the choice they would have given them all up to spend time with their mother. You WILL get your children back. Please don't despair. By the way, has anything more happened with the solicitor?

yes, i agree, do not contact the stepmother. She will only try to stop you. Don't forget she has lied before. Sounds to me like it may have also been a ploy to get your father's money if he had any. With you out of the picture, she didn't have to share anything with you.

Bunglie I too have been reading your story with utmost horror and tears in my eyes. I am truely sorry that things didn't go too well with the ap's. IMO they are a lost cause and you cannot get any further with them. However, I really think that you can rebuild you relationship with your ds and dd. I don't know if you read my story on "Mums who leave the children" but I must be totally honest in that I think that your children (certainly ds) are probably feeling very bitter towards you at the moment. I certainly was at their age, towards my Mum. But, you have to start rebuilding this relationship. IMO going in with the whole story may be a bit too much for them to take in. How about just arranging to take your ds out for a meal/drink - just on a "friends" basis? My Mum and I gradually rebuilt our love and I really would not be without her. I truly love her. You really do have a chance with your ds and you will have a chance with your dd, once she turns 18. Good luck - of all the Mums I know you deserve to be one not just in name.

God-SofiaA you are so perceptive, yes, my Father died in the November and wrote me out of his will in the previous July. We had always had quite a close relationship until this happened with the children. Me being arrested and charged was a shame I do think he could take. He was a local magistrate and My Step-mother told me after that I had destroyed him. To know that your father died hating you and not being able to put it right is very painful and I do not think that I could ever forgive her for that. The ONLY reason I would ever contemplate contacting her is if I thought she could help me get my children back. But yes, it was her who took them away from me, with the help of a judicial system that supported Meadows. I have lived happily without her in my life and I would like to think that my children are intelligent enough to see through her cheque book ploys. I resent the contact she has had but them the AP's NEVER discuss her with me and vice versa. Those poor children can not know which way is 'up'. I want to so badly send my son the letter but I have to ask.

1. Is he mature enough to cope with the truth.
2. Would it be better to try and find out what he has already been told and what the letter said.
3. Will I loose contact with my daughter if I send it now.
4. Should I use an 'agency' like NORCAP who can offer proffessional advice and support.
5. If he tells his sister (which I am certain he will) will she be able to cope with it and the pressure of doing her A'Levels.
6. Therefore should I wait until she is 18 in 10 months. It is a lot for an adult to accept but and adolescent. Am I doing this for me or for them. I feel as if I am doing it for them, because lies are destructive but I am also doing it for myself if I am honest. I am so very frightened that when my dd reaches 18 that I will loose them both, and yet if I act now I could destroy their lives and the stability that they have grown up relying on and believing. I do not want to hurt anyone or blame anyone or make it seem as if I am asking them to choose.

The Solicitor said that I could instruct him to write on my behalf to the ss to request a copy of the letter but he doubts that I would get it and he would charge me £69 for something I can do! Apart from that he is powerless unless My case is one of the ones that is reviewed and for that to happen I have to bring it to their attention and the best way is via my M.P. who has not replied since telling me Mrs Hodge was to make a statement and I learnt all about 'the tote'!

Bunglie, a few points.
1 What's wrong with wanting something for yourself? You aren't wrong to want to know your children and give them your love. All of us do this for ourselves as much as for our children. It is a pleasure and a joy and there is nothing wrong with wanting love, pleasure and joy in your life.
2 What stability do they have now? What do they rely on and believe? They presumably think that either a/their mother gave them up/rejected them and didn't love them enough to keep them or b/tried to hurt them. That can't be good for a teenager. Neither do I call the life on an 18 year-old boy living on his own in a bedsit particularly 'stable' and certainly not happy.
3 Yes, talk to Norcap if you want, but your relationship with your children will be better if it is based on truth. You can't keep up these lies any longer.
4 You could wait until your daughter is 18, but do write to your son to at least say that you love him, have always loved him, never rejected him or his sister and you would love the chance to talk to him about why it happened. Prepare the ground, if you like. But don't be the only 'good' person here or you could lose out the way you did when your children were first taken from you. You said that then you thought in the middle of all the awfulness that maybe you did actually have MSBP, which suggests you are vulnerable to other people's bad behaviour. I think it is extremely unlikely the SS will disclose what they have told your son, but you can bet your life they didn't tell him that it was a terrible mistake on their part.
If I was your son, I would want to know.
While you ponder all this, why not call Norcap tomorrow and discuss it with them?

SofiaAmes is spot on about your stepmonster's motivation, I am sure of it. How evil! Don't contact her or even let her have the slightest idea what you are planning or she will try to hurt you all over again, I bet.
Contact your MP again to see what is happening.

Bunglie, please do not assume that your father died hating you or having bad feelings for you. My father died 4 years ago and had been estranged from his daughter for almost 28 years, without going into to much of the history i know with all the awful things she did (which you did none of) he had forgiven her years ago! I KNOW that he would have loved to have seen her one last time but for the love of his wife (my mother her step-mother) he would not, he would not betray my mother he often said to me that he just wanted the end of his last life to be peaceful. But i know that he would have liked to have made real peace with so much and so many that he had let down and let go of in pursuit of keeping his wife happy! So please please do not think he hated you!I do completely agree with everyone do not try to contact your step mother she is obviously a very twisted woman and is unlikely to bring you any good at all. As far as the cheque book relationship is concerned again i grew up in a very priviledged 'cheque book' society and to this day would have given it all up for the love of good parents. Love is so so much more than money and disney your children know that i am sure you can see it in your daughters eyes, i can feel it in your story of the time you just spent together. IMO and in response to your numbers

1. No one knows just tread carefully
2. Yes if possible
3. Unlikely for very long it does sound like she is just waiting to build a real relationship with you. 4)Probably not as far as mediation is concerned by can you get the advice and support annonymously without risking their intervention? 5)Really tough one, A Levels are over in 31/2-4 months do you think you may be able to sit it out till them. You never know the goody-bag may bring him to you (especially if all our prayers for you are working!!)
4. How about till after the A levels? Dont be frightened that you will lose them when they are 18. Tell me one person that didnt start to grow up and start to try and really find out who they are from about that age on. I am so so so sure that you will get your dreamed of relationship with them. Last bit of my opinion is keep noodging at your MP give us his email address and we'll have send him emails on urging him for your behalf!

I can not add ANYTHING to the above except that your son needs to know the truth, that he is and has always been loved and that yes it maybe an emotional shock, but it has to be better than what he is thinking now.
I agree with Stace. If you can - Let us have your M.P.'s name and we will write on your behalf, he can't ignore you then!
WOW! Have just seen BBC news......It seems as if they are going to review cases of children whos parents were accused of having msbp and are in care but NOT those where the children have been adopted. Even if as Bunglie says she does not want the adoption overturned or anything like that doesn't she have the right to clear her own name?
Bunglie PLEASE go back and see a solicitor and find out the situation, I am certain the CAB will help.
This is such a travesty of injustice that you have lived with. I am certain that you must feel so confused with it all and your postings show that you have so much love for your children and only their best interests at heart, you now have a chance to do something but I am not qualified to say how or what, I just know that if you are to get any kind of closure and your children the love and mother that they deserve you need to act and with our support maybe you can find the strength to do it.
This makes me so angry, it haunts me and I wish I could just hug you and say it will be alright.
Cheeseball, how are you? can we do anything for you?
I rarely let things get to me but I have cried reading this thread and I think you really are very brave people. Bunglie you probably don't realise what hidden strength you have, but to have survived this without showing bitterness is amazing. I am truelly in awe of your strength and wish you the very best in what you decide.
You deserve to be the mother of YOUR children, they were stolen from you by a system that allowed an evil man destroy the lives of thousands and I for one will not let my M.P. 'sweep it under the carpet'.
Bunglie and Cheeseball you are both in my prayers and if you want to contact me please do.
Love and Hugs () XXX

Bunglie
It is hard for any of us to say how your son will react. The fact that he has found himself somewhere to live independently, and that he is still close to your daughter suggests to me that he is more mature than many 18 year olds. But again, what is it you are telling him? That you never abandoned him, that he was taken from you and that you have been unable to tell him what had happened until now. That none of it was your fault. That none of it was the APs fault. You are all victims here. It MUST be a good thing that he knows this, if not immediately, then when he has had the chance to come to terms with what you tell him.

The more you tell us about your stepmother, the more I think that you should act now, before she too decides to tell your son her own version, now he is 18.

I have just had a call from my mother in law, she has been told of this thread by my dh I think (but does not have a computer so does not know what is posted) She thinks I should stop before I get into trouble and says that it is only causing dh more stress and I will cause more trouble for myself.
Yes I saw the news Wayward and they were clear that if your child had been adopted then they were not going to review your case. So I guess that's me finished. As Mother-in-law said what has happpened has happened and I must try to move on with my life.
Spent afternoon in tears, I have never felt so alone. I wonder if she would feel the same if it was her children who were taken. I will be truthful I do not know if she believes that ds was a sid.
I wish I had your strength Bunglie and thank you but maybe it is better to let sleeping dogs lie.
I did think I might have a chance to find out about my ds, not get her back but get one of those open adoption s like Bunglie. I don't think dh can cope with it though or me at the moment.
Good luck Bunglie in whatever you decide but I know that if I had the chance I would tell my ds the truth. Please keep posting so we know what you decide as my prayers are with you, even thopugh it is too late for us it is not for you. When you have carried a baby, given birth and then had it taken from you it is like it has died, because part of me has died and I would rather think that my ds is in a happy loving home getting everything that we could not give her. Maybe if I knew more it would shatter my illussions and I could not cope with that.
Love and hugs Cheeseball.

Dear Cheeseball, my heart goes out to you to give you the strength to soldier on through this time for you. Whatever you decide to do please make sure you keep copies of the whole thread as one day you may have the opportunity to let you child read them. I am sure when the time is right it will be very comforting to really really know in writing the turmoil and support that both you and Bunglie have had here. I wish you luck and love for whatever you decide to do and i am sure that i speak for everyone here by saying that we are always here for a listening ear, a strong shoulder and as many virtual hugs etc that you you every need whenever you need!!!!

my heart goes out to you both, bunglie and cheeseball.

bunglie, I too think will add my voice to the growing chorus saying 'send the letter to your son'

But I do understand your caution about content and timing, especially regarding your son telling your daughter.

I think you have to be very clear in your mind what this letter is meant to achieve. Is it mainly to tell your son the whole truth, give him the full details of your story - something in writing that he can study and refer to?

Or is the letters main purpose to get your son to meet you? to assure him that you love him but not give him too many details about the past, so it's more of an introduction and an invitation.

I know the letter could be both these things, but it might help you to be clear about the one major thing you want from it.

I think it's really important that you meet and talk to your son as soon as possible. You can then see his reactions, determine what you will tell him (or not tell him for now) as you go along, see if you need to pull back if he looks too overloaded with information and above all, show him all the love you have for him. It might need lots of meetings to tell him your story - others here have said better than I that it will take time. But I am sure your son must have seen the news about Sir Roy Meadows - have you thought about including any press cuttings with your letter? do you think that might help?

If you want my input, that letter is there to persuade your son to meet you first and foremost, so whatever you send, keep that as the goal.

Cheeseball don't give up honey - please keep fighting and keep posting and as for better let sleeping dogs lie - thats not true - you will never be able to rest.

Bunglie Bunglie Bunglie - you have a stepmonster too - what is it with them - they are just sooo wicked and evil - if I could I would gladly kill mine - I cannot understand how rottem some women can be.

As for you thinking you did something wrong at the meeting - you didn't at all - and it seemed that your DD really appreciated the gestures that you made and she was brave enough to make one herself - against the wishes of her APs (they sound weird and it sickens me to the core that people use religeon as a way of justifying their actions especially when they are lying - god what utter gits!!) - but think of it - and it may be the wrong way round things - your DD has been brought up differently to her peers - not being allowed to own or do things that other children/YAs do/have - and then along comes mum - she is normal, balanced and not freaks like her APs - wouldn't you start to question what was/had actually gone on if you were her?? Wouldn't you want to know more of this woman??

Anyway at the end of the day I grew up knowing that my father did not want me and I got nothing but pain and torture from my stepmoinster and I would love for someone like you to come into my life and mother me, to say they do and have always loved me and that what has happened was out of your control and that you want to be a part of my life and be there for me. I am sure this is how your DD would feel and how your DS would also feel - I think yu should go ahead and send the leter to him - maybe put in there that it is his decision whether he tells DD at the moment before her A's - he must know her well afterall. And I feel it a bit odd that this loving truthful family was not that great that he scarpered as soon as he was 18 - I think he hated the way he was brought up and you coming into his life may be exactly what he needs - love, warmth and support.

Do it though - you have not now or ever done anything wrong - I am appalled at how the British Judicial system has wronged you and let you down. Honey go out there and shout what has happened from the highest rooftops - you can do it annonomously - there must be a journalist willing to take up your story - Aloha?? What about the man who did the documentary on BBC1 - sorry I can't rememeber his name can anyone help me here?? Lots of the women on there were in shadow and they got their story across - god what can we do??

I love your story about the ball gown - get dresssed up in it - get DH to get dressed up to and have a chinese by candlelight and soft music and just be together.

All my love and hugs to you - you are amazing to hav kept sane over all of these years and deserve happiness to come a knocking at your door very soon - and I am sure it will. XXX

In the meantime if there is anything I can do or help with please do let me know - I live in SE9, not sure where you are but I want to offer you my help if I can.

bunglie, this probably has been covered earler, but the thought is playing on my mind - this is an alternative scenario, given my interpretation of your situation. I may have got some of the facts wrong, but here goes: Here's your son, 18 years old. He doesn't get on with his adopted parents too well so has moved into a bedsit. He is lonely. He knows you are now allowed to talk to him independently since he is 18. He wonders if you will. He had also seen the news about Sir Roy Meadows so already thinks there may be much more to his past than he's been told.

He really wants you to come forward - and almost expects it now he's not longer under the legal control of his adopted parents,and wonders why you don't. He is still afraid though, so can't make the first move and speak properly to you. He is afraid of what he will find out from you and afraid to know what you think of him. He is also afraid of alienating his adopted parents (who still have his sister) if he makes the first move towards you. But he is waiting for you to make contact.

Could there be any truth in this interpretation? I just thought I'd give you another way of looking at this, if you haven't thought this already.

tigermoth, I think you have hit the nail on the head. Bunglie, please contact your son right away.
By the way, I have just written a long email to Margaret Hodge urging her to look into the cases of the adopted children too. Not to necessarily reverse the adoptions but to give them the truth. They need to know that their mothers were not evil.
I urge everyone else to email her too. The more individuals she hears from, the more likely she is to take action. I think that the pressure she is putting on social services to review the other cases comes from public pressure on her.

Margaret Hodge has just given her first interview on this on Woman's Hour. I'm not sure how informative it was (children shouting at me like they do when you're trying to listen to something) but it's downloadable from the BBC website though I think you might have to wait until it's finished otherwise you just get what's on now. HTH.