Time magazine image of breastfeeding

[banana87]

Apparently this image is kicking up a hot debate in the US.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/time-magazine-cover-showing-mother-828267

I really wish people would educate themselves about the benefits of extended breastfeeding before proclaiming its child molestation. Utterly crap.

5mad - Never mind sharing showers, I think Whatthehell believes that the mere glimpse of my withered baps or dh's hairy bottom will imprint itself irreversibly and damagingly on our children's brains. Like being branded or something.

Why wait for children to be apalled by something before taking action?

A twelve year old may well be confused and upset but unable to externalise those emotions. They may not realise the effect of what they see around them on their psyche. So many adults look back and criticise parts of their upbringing which they didn't realise were uncomfortable at thay time.

I don't think I'd say "Let me just pick DC up from school with pink hair and a tutu. If it bothers her she'll let me know". Logic fail.

merrymouse

Where have i said that it is wrong to have a nude image of the opposite gender in your head? I have one in my head right now, but the difference is that it doesn't belong to my dad.
I was referring to nude or sexual images of parents , not people from art class.

Can you comprehend the difference?

but the point is they dont suddenly get upset, my eldest child stopped wanting to get in the bath with me, i dont even remember when as it was a very gradual process, he knocks and then comes into the bathroom to chat to me sometimes when i am in the bath. that is his choice, we arent forcing nudity onto our children, ds1 now generally showers with the bathroom door shut, if someone needs to go in he may or may not wrap a towel round himself, he happily wanders round in his boxer shorts etc, this is all his own choice i dont force him to come into the bathroom when i am in there. he is setting his own boudaries with what he is comfortable with.

just as ds2 is, who is almost 10, he doesnt always like to bath with his siblings but sometimes is fine with that, he still currenlty happily wanders around naked after getting out the bath, he will come in the bathroom when i am showering but doesnt ask to get in the shower or the bath with me anymore, again i dont remember when he stopped doing so, probably in the last 18mths, he certainly had a bath with me when i was 8, not taht i stayed in it long as there wasnt much space.

i think you are underestimating the abilities of children to vocalise when they are upset, or dont like something, maybe some children wouldnt, but i know mine would, for instance my dad is staying at the moment and is actually sleeping in ds1's bedroom, he went to get something yesterday and knocked on the door and ds1 simply said, 'i am getting changed hang on a minute' he is capable of asking for privacy and of NOT coming into the bathroom if i am in there naked. ditto when he brings me a cup of tea in the morning occasionally, he wouldnt have to come into my bedroom he could leave it outside and i would get it, but he is happy to make me and dp a cup of tea, maybe sit on the edge of the bed and chat it he wants to (very rare that we actually get a lay in like this! but it does happen)

why is it alright to have images of strangers or any body else of the opposite sex but not your parents, i saw both my parents naked and tbh i would struggle to recollect the image in detail, as i said i have clear images of sitting chatting to my mum in the bath but the main memory isnt of her being naked its the chat we had and that it was nice to spend some time together esp as my little sister had not long been born, so it was rare to have time to just sit and chat.

children arent fixated on boobs and penises, they def go through phases of finding them funny and odd but they dont stare at them and build up a mental picture that they store in their brains like you seem to assume my children from a young age have been told its rude to stare and as they are used to me being naked in the bathroom its not a sight that would make them stare!

incidentally my dad was having a shower this morning, and ds3 went into the bathroom to have a wee, after knocking! he was most interested in the fact that my dad has scars on his neck and chest from cancer treatment, didnt give a dam that he was naked, but asked about the scars and then commented that my dad has a bit of a hairy back unlike dp!

btw merrymouse i LOVE your name, we call our dd merrymouse, she is merryn and gets called merrynmouse, but its often shorted to merry as well! :)

Not really no. But then in my head this image would be part of us all getting changed out of our swimming costumes on a freezing cold beach. I don't think I'd be thinking too much about anybody's private parts. Probably I'd be wondering if anybody had packed some biscuits. Sorry. It just wouldn't have made that strong an impression on me. Bits of Cornwall are very beautiful though - I can recommend some good beaches?

(Merryn is a very nice name )

the name Merryn is cornish :) and thats it isnt it merrymouse the images are all part of a bigger memory you dont focus on the nudity, its the whole of the memory not one bit.

Ooh - St Merryn - I've been there!

yep thats it! we are staying in devon this summer and will nip across to cornwall and visit sy merryn as its not far, i shall be taking a pic of dd in front of a st merryn signpost!

'I don't think it's necessary for mothers to disrobe in front of their sons so that they can realise what a 'real' female body looks like.'

Apart from the fact that very few people have any agenda in mind while going about their lives in the average smallish house with perhaps one bathroom, I actually think that would be the single most important reason to do it. The other female bodies a DS is likely to see during childhood and adolescence are as far from normal as Barbies are.

The effect on girls of seeing waif thin models in fashion magazines has been well documented. Even designers have to some extent accepted that the message they send out when they choose emaciated young women for fashion shows contributes to rates of eating disorders among young women. The effects of a continuous diet of soft porn on both boys and girls are also well documented. It is important for children to see a woman with a normal size and shape going about her daily life with energy and enthusiasm and to see her comfortable with her body, not expressing the wish to 'lose another 5 lbs and I'll be perfect', just happy in her own skin.

"Why wait for children to be apalled by something before taking action?"

My dd is appalled by my clothes. Much more appalled by my clothes than by my body.

She's nearly cried in the past about (perfectly innocuous) outfits I've worn when I've had to go into school and talk to her tutor.

What - do you think that seeing parents naked is particularly scarring because it's sexual in some way? Like akin to sexual abuse? I suspect you do. You think that a child seeing their parents sexual organs, not in the process of deliberate display and flaunting, but casually during the normal day to day hustle and bustle of family life - it's equivalent to some sort of sexual abuse?

Is this what you're saying? Because that's what your posts imply.

"I was referring to nude or sexual images of parents"

You do realise that 'sexual' and 'nude' don't always go together don't you what?

I agree with you that walking around with a big boner in front of your children is wrong, as is having sex in front of them.

But being naked... well, that's not the same is it?

Btw shagmumdfreud , if your 8 year old says 'eww shut the door' when he sees you in the shower naked, then your attempt at normalising nudity by walking around unclothed in front of your kids has failed hasn't it? If your son viewed nudity as normal and non- sexual as you want him to, he wouldn't have passed that comment, nor would he have issues with seeing his mother naked.

I see. So we are now suggessting that women ensure that their sons see their naked bodies so that the boys will understand what a real woman looks like.

I'm a little shocked by the stupidity in this thread. Do you people really think that one has to be naked for the other to figure out whether one is fat or thin? Even if mum is fully clothed, the boys (or girls) will still be able to make out that she is not like those skinny models.
Guiding children away from the porn culture can be done with open communication and attention. A nude show at home is hardly madatory to combat what they see outside on TV etc.
My husband and his brother are very well brought up men who don't expect all women to look like Miranda Kerr. They never once saw their mother naked.

I didn't get the impression that shagmundfreud was walking around unclothed in an attempt to normalise nudity. I think she was just pointing out that children naturally reach a stage at about the age of 8 when they prefer a bit more privacy. They start closing the bathroom door when they go to the loo for instance. Before this many children don't care. I think I am backed up in this theory by the many swimming pool changing rooms who allow children to change in the changing room of the opposite sex until the age of 7 or 8.

(Unless! all these children are retreating to their same sex changing rooms voluntarily because of 'issues' caused by seeing naked bodies of the opposite sex!!!! - maybe there is a lawsuit in it!)

"Btw shagmumdfreud , if your 8 year old says 'eww shut the door' "

I don't walk around naked!

I'm sensitive to his feelings of discomfort in seeing me naked.

If someone thought it was ok to say Ewwww to me if they saw me either dressed or undressed I would consider them first in line for a little chat about rudeness..

It's lovely that you are so sensitive shagmund.

But you missed the point. Your attempts at normalising nudity by allowing your children to see you in the shower etc. have failed, because your son still views it as sexual on some level.

And yes, merrymouse, I am aware that children become more aware by around age 7. Which is why I don't condone a 10 or 12 year old boy walking in on his mum in the shower or worse still joining her.

mathanxiety

Kindly direct your lecture regarding polite behaviour to shagmund's son who said the word you find so objectionable.
Oh wait! It isn't really your place to do that.

why does he see it as sexual? just because he doesnt want to see his mum naked doesnt mean he views her naked body as sexual? more that at age 8 he is getting to the age where he is thinking about these things and wanting a bit of privacy for himself maybe (depending on child) he is just working out where his boundaries lay, in no way does him not wanting to see her mean its he is viewing it as sexual on any level!

and i repeat i never said my 12yr old comes in the bath or the shower with me but he is happy to come into the bathroom when i am in there. interestingly i chatted to some school friend mums about this, not one person had an issue with their children seeing them naked, some still had baths with their children on occasion, it was just seen as normal.

Well I'm not surprised if Shagmund is missing your point, because I'm finding it very hard to find.

I missed the bit of the thread where somebody asked you to condone 10 and 12 year old boys having showers with their mothers? From what I understand, many people on this thread have small bathrooms and the shower wouldn't be big enough anyway.

I am glad that you no longer seem to be claiming that a 3 year old would understand a breast as a sexual object, so that is a little progress.

I find it ridiculous to equate the number of children taken by CPS in Scandinavia with nudity. I think (and I may very well be wrong) that from what I've read it is more to do with their issues regarding homeschooling, especially for religious reasons, and their belief and trust in governement, rather than anything to do with naked parents.

I have different views on this because I grew up in Minnesota (still live there now) which is very MidWestern American in beliefs (most of us are quite prudish :o ) and yet, we were heavily settled by Scandinavian immigrants (my family is predominantly Finnish in heritage) and so most of our older relatives grew up taking saunas all together. So some families in my culture would be shocked, and to others it's no big deal at all.

"Do you honestly think it is all right for a man at 30 to be able to recall the size of his mother's breasts, the way she groomed her pubic hair and the appearence of her behind? Or for a woman of say 25 to remember exactly how big dad's penis is and what his bum looked like? Everyone I know would find the thought quite strange if not horrifying."

Well, I for one am relieved that a true and clearly well-qualified psychologist has joined this discussion to keep us well-informed and off the primrose path to corrupting our DC.

I still remember what my dad's bum looks like (and his penis too, I suppose). And my mum's body too. Does that make me horribly and irrevocably depraved and twisted? (Oh sorry - 'sick' was the professional term used, I believe.) Oh damn. Guess I'd better spend what remains of the family savings on some therapy.

This seems to have developed into a very odd thread! As is usual with MN, some people have the view that everyone is the same and their way is 'right'. People have different attitudes, if you are not comfortable with nudity there is nothing to say you have to go around nude, if you are happy there is no need to cover up. I had a friend whose father used to garden in the nude, it threw me a bit the first time but it was normal for him.
In my case I can't remember when the DCs wanted privacy- it was a completely natural progression, like knocking on their bedroom door before I went in.
To answer the question about me bathing an elderly father- it won't occur as he is dead, but if he couldn't manage with a broken leg, of course I would.

I have lost all track of what this has to do with the fully clothed magazine picture!