Time magazine image of breastfeeding

[banana87]

Apparently this image is kicking up a hot debate in the US.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/time-magazine-cover-showing-mother-828267

I really wish people would educate themselves about the benefits of extended breastfeeding before proclaiming its child molestation. Utterly crap.

I think the family video we took during DSs first few days includes some shots of me feeding him and his big sister (then 2.6 yrs) at the same time

I'm glad there is an image of the occurrence as it's part of their and my experience. It might be interesting for example to DD if she goes on to have children of her own one day, especially if she's up for some tandem feeding like her Mum ! ( Mostly I fed them separately BTW, but both at the same time was handy during those first few days and may have helped a little with any feelings of being pushed out for the new baby )

That is lovely, Juggling and quite different. It was in your DCs interests and not exploiting them.

I bet you didn't dress up for it, dress up your DCs and pose.

Thanks exotic

They are also more likely to see it as a normal thing to do and not that you are a mother with issues that come before their welfare. I have pictures of me breast feeding, they are not on the Internet for years to come! And I am not especially dressed looking powerful in black! And they didn't wear combat trousers when toddlers. The whole thing irritates me.

I am undecided about the image - big fuss about nowt though really. I asked dd2 age 3 1/2 what she thought the picture showed (she bf until last summer and still asks to be fed sometimes) 'The boy is eating his mummy's booby' - then she asked for something to eat. Not traumatised in any way.

I hope the child in the picture is not given any grief for it in the future but I do think the mother looks extremely smug (that may be my bitter envy of her figure speaking). As far as normalising ext bf - one picture chosen to grab attention and promote sales of a magazine will not do it obviously.

I have been relatively discrete about my bf to 2-3 yrs for my children and tended not to need to feed the children when we were out after 18m apart from long journeys (on a plane for instance). I do find that people tend to categorise you as some kind of earth mother with droopy boobs and a lentil obsession, I can almost see their minds click and whirr as they slot me into 'bloody hippy' whenever I have mentioned how long I breastfed or co-slept. So I do like seeing a young and attractive woman in the image from that point of view.

It is probably not as harmful as that bloody 'bitty' sketch on Little Britain though, I really hope David Walliams has children and they get bf until they are 8 so that he can understand how unhelpful it was. Truthfully though - I am probably more annoyed at my sister for using the phrase when she saw me feeding dd1 at the age of 3, grrrr.

I see nothing wrong with breastfeeding a three year old. If she wants to, why not?!

OTH, I would never even consider it.
I've seen my nephews at age 3-5 looking at Victoria's Secret catalogues and perking into ladies' trial rooms. They became sexually aware and curious to some extent by that age.
I wouldn't feel comfortable putting a child of that age, with that level of awareness and curiosity, to my breast. Add to that the prospect of breastfeeding for three years, with all the sacrifices it implies and you can safely count me out.
But that's just me! I don't quite care if anyone else does it.

What I do object to is this recent attachment parenting fad which makes people who enjoy the benefits of modern society such as store bought diapers and formula feel like pieces of crap.

I love the way devotees of attachment parenting complain about being judged, whereas they are the most judgemental themselves. They judge epidurals, cesarians on request (or even otherwise), formula feeding, store bought diapers, people who choose not to co-sleep....the list goes on.

I'm electing a CS, I will be formula feeding my child, I will not be co sleeping, I will not room- in beyond six weeks, I will return to work full time when my baby is six months old, I will be getting a nanny, and I don't quite warm to the idea of "skin to skin" with a newborn covered in amniotic fluid, blood etc.

You cannot believe the judgement I have faced. Something as simple as saying, I want my baby cleaned before he is put on me or that I would never breastfeed in public, invites wrath and judgement like you wouldn't believe.

sexually aware and curious at 3 yrs of age?!! are you having a laugh?!! 4 boys aged 12, 9, 7 and 4 and none of them were sexually aware at that age!!

and as for your choices, fine they are your choices, i assume you have done your research and are doing what you think is best for your circumstances, thats fine, i would hope that you know the research re sids tho if you are not going to have the baby in your room past 6wks of age. None of my newborns were covered in amniotic fluid or blood when they were born, esp not ds4 who was a water birth.

i am glad you are happy in your choices, equally i am happy with mine, the one thing i will say is that i wasnt dogmatic in how i was going to parent, i had a cot but we ended up co-sleeping, thats how it worked out and whilst i never thought about doing it when pregnant i actually loved it (most of the time!) you may have your ideas, but your baby will be its own little person with its own needs, so just be prepared that when it turns up it will let you know that! and you may find your own feelings change, you may not, but i would warn ANY parent about starting off with a set dogma of ANY ideals before a baby is born as you have no idea what that baby will be like or what you will feel like once its born :)

'What I do object to is this recent attachment parenting fad which makes people who enjoy the benefits of modern society such as store bought diapers and formula feel like pieces of crap.

I love the way devotees of attachment parenting complain about being judged, whereas they are the most judgemental themselves. They judge epidurals, cesarians on request (or even otherwise), formula feeding, store bought diapers, people who choose not to co-sleep....the list goes on.'

Eh?
I bought so many boxes of disposables I should have bought shares in whoever made them. FF DD4 but was able to get bfeeding established, had one epidural and begged for another but no-one was available to administer it, co-slept with 3 out of 5 DCs. I am glad I didn't have to recover from a CS; I have had other abdominal surgery and I didn't think it was anything near as straightforward a recovery as advertised. My sister was still dealing with the aftermath of her CS years afterwards.

How you feel about your choices is entirely up to you.

5madthings

Every child is different. The two boys I'm talking about were peeking into changing rooms and watching FTv surreptitiously by age 4. I'd call that the beginning of sexual awareness, wouldn't you?
Of course they don't know what sex is, but they do have a natural curiosity about bodies and the opposite gender. In my opinion (put this down to cultural differences), it's not a great idea for children beyond age two to see their mother's bared breasts. No offence intended, it's just a personal opinion.

Yes, I know the research regarding SIDs. To my knowledge, not letting baby out of your sight 24-7, will not prevent SIDs. The difference in the occurrence of SIDs in babies who do and o not co sleep is minute and far from exhaustive. Bringing this up us like subtly pointing out that parents who put their babies in a separate room don't care if their babies die.
None of the babies in my family co slept, and we all turned out fine.

mathanxiety

My mother was dealing with the aftermath of a vaginal delivery even 20 years after, given the prolapse she developed. My SIL is still recovering from her fourth degree tear two years post delivery. My cousin couldn't sit or have sex without pain for a year after her normal delivery. I don't think a VB has a recovery as easy as is advertised either. I've seen women up and shopping 4 days after a CS. Recovery is individual, you'll never know unless you go through it.

Nonetheless, recovery is not uppermost on my priority list. I take the other risks and benefits more seriously.

If there isn't FTV or VS catalogues or Page 3 available for them to sneak a peek at then they wouldn't go seeking it out. If it is there and no adult makes an effort to keep them from seeing it then I would call that neglect. It all depends on the cultural context of what they are being exposed to. A child whose culture fetishises breasts will probably be quicker to associate bare breasts with sex than one whose culture does not.

sids is not about not co-sleeping, its about having the baby in the same room as you as they are tuned into you and your breathing, it makes it less likely that they will suffer sids. lots of us turned out fine and we slept in our own rooms and on our backs etc, we also didnt used to use carseats but the evidence is that carseats and keeping your baby in the same room as you is safest for the first 6mths. if you have read the research and are happy with your choice fine.

what is FTv? boys and girls will peek in changing rooms it doesnt mean they are sexually aware it means they are children and playing, often playing peekaboo, or just being silly, they need to be taught that its not polite to do that, so no peeking into changing rooms isnt sexual awareness a natural curiosity about their body or other naked bodies isnt sexual awareness either its just realising that people are all different.

and as for it not being a good idea for children beyond the age of two to see naked breasts, god my 11 yr old saw me give birth!! my boys have and do still see my breasts if they come into the bathroom when i am having a shower or come into bed for a cuddle in the morning its fine and normal!!

ds1 at 12 isnow wanting privacy (for himself at least) and he gets it but he will still come into the bathroom when i am in the bath and have a chat, again perfectly normal, i would much rather raise my children to have a healthy attitude to their body and sex than give them some kind of warped idea that they shouldnt see naked breasts from 2 yrs of age, you are simply porjecting your own hang ups onto a toddler!!!

Firstly, the magazines were lying around in the house of a person they were visiting. How pathetic to automatically blame the parents and call them neglectful.

5madthings

It's your lookout if you think it's all right for young children to see their parents naked or ( giving birth for that matter)

I think there is something deeply wrong about a twelve year old boy seeing his mother naked. To you, it may be perfectly normal, to me it's extremely inappropriate.

I don't feel like explaining in detail to you that my nephew's behaviour was indeed prompted by sexual awareness.

You can say what you like, but I have no hang ups. I simply don't think it's a good idea for young children to see their parents unclothed.

Why is it fine and unexceptionable to leave magazines full of pictures of very scantily clad young women in provocative, sexy poses lying around for anyone including an 11 year old boy to gawk at but not ok for a 11 year old boy to watch a woman giving birth?

'Remember BFing improves intelligence.' Really Startail? I don't think there is any evidence for this. So the longer you BF the more intelligent your DC?

mathanxiety

I think I explained that there were no magazines left lying around by the parents. The children saw them at a relative's house. I'm sure you are aware that most people have very little control over what others keep in their houses? In any case, the children in question were 3 and 5, not 11. You really should read more carefully.

Moreover, since you believe that three to five year old boys are not sexually aware, and should be allowed to see their mothers nude, why would pictures in a VS catalogue bother them? Since they don't view breasts sexually at all, I imagine it would be OK for them to see models in bras, in your opinion?

I don't think there is any need for young children(or any assorted relatives like brothers sisters etc) in the delivery room. It's great to normalise birth, but not to the point that you have you have impressionable children running around watching their mother moaning in pain, stark naked, with her legs spread wide and a tiny person shooting out of her. I'm not judging anyone who does it, I just don't understand the mindset that goes behind it. I can't see any possible benefit of a young child watching a woman giving birth. There may not be any harm or trauma that is necessarily caused, but I don't see any benefits either.

My children have leafed through our lawnmower catalogues. Doesn't mean they want to be Alan Titchmarsh.

Oh FFS! merrymouse

When you walk in on two little boys hiding under a bed looking surreptitiously at a catalogue of women in bras, what will you assume? When they repeatedly walk into ladies changing rooms what do you make of that? When they try to sneak into their older female cousins in the shower, what do think that is? It's sexual curiosity.
Sure, children are naturally curious, but if you think they don't have any sexual awareness at all, you are rather naive.

Anyway, this is all moot. I don't think that children should see their parents naked. Nor do I think they should see women giving birth. Sure, nudity and childbirth are a normal part of life, but then so is sex. So what's next? We invite our young ones into the bedroom while we are at it, so that they can see how natural sex is? I hope not.

science lover

Can the study explain how my exclusively formula fed cousin has a PHD from Harvard? Or how is it that I went to an Ivy league UNI to do math, even though I was FF?

I know they were three and five. I am just wondering why you think it is ok for them to look at VS catalogues or to poke around ladies changing rooms while it is not ok for them to see a woman breastfeed? Models in the VS catalogue are posing provocatively and the concept is very blatantly sexualised by design. There's a lot more to VS than models in bras. There is a huge difference between VS and one's mother taking a shower or breastfeeding.

You can discreetly pick up a mag you see in a relative's house and put it behind a cushion or on a shelf and you can tell children not to intrude on others in a fitting room.

You seem to have an idea that seeing women as sex objects is something normal, and nothing can or should be be done to limit a child's exposure to that, while seeing women's bodies functioning as mammals or just going about daily life, bathing, dressing, etc., is something likely to be traumatic or to have long term negative effects.

Speaking personally, I was not stark naked while giving birth, and nor did anything shoot out of me but they have seen pictures of women giving birth as we talked and read books about the process. They have all breastfed and have all seen me breastfeeding. The older ones all changed their fair share of nappies and helped with burping. They have also been aware that I experienced morning sickness, and was sore and stiff after delivery. DD1 had DS and DD2 to see breastfeeding, by the time she was 5 years old; when DD3 was born she was 8, and 11 when DD4 was born. DS was 5 when DD4 was born and 8 when DD4 arrived and he saw me breastfeeding too. DD1, DS and DD2 all remember visiting me in the hospital a few times and all were treated to the sight of me breastfeeding babies over the years. DD3 saw less. It is unavoidable if you live in a smallish house and have a largish family.

It wasn't my personal choice to have the DCs there for the duration as they would have needed supervision, feeding, watering, bathroom, entertainment, somewhere to rest or sleep, etc., and I think it would have been very boring for them (went on for hours and hours). Fwiw, I also discouraged the DCs from walking in on me in the bathroom from about age 4/5 on as I like my privacy there, and I wanted to give them the idea that they too were entitled to their own physical privacy; everyone knocked on the bathroom door in my family from that age on and did not come in if they were told to stay out. But I would prefer my children to see me giving birth to being exposed to Page Three, VS, or the steady diet of softish porn or Nudge Nudge Wink Wink stuff that seeps into the lives of a lot of children.

'When you walk in on two little boys hiding under a bed looking surreptitiously at a catalogue of women in bras, what will you assume? When they repeatedly walk into ladies changing rooms what do you make of that? When they try to sneak into their older female cousins in the shower, what do think that is? It's sexual curiosity.'

No, it's bad behaviour, and the parent who allows them to follow a prurient interest in the bodies of women at that age has somehow contributed to their inappropriate sexualisation.

Children who are brought up to respect the bodies and the privacy of women do not behave like that until they are much older, when you might expect boys in particular to have some interest in the likes of the VS catalogue and beyond. For younger children, that sort of interest is a sign of a problem in the culture of the environment they are being brought up in.