Time magazine image of breastfeeding

[banana87]

Apparently this image is kicking up a hot debate in the US.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/time-magazine-cover-showing-mother-828267

I really wish people would educate themselves about the benefits of extended breastfeeding before proclaiming its child molestation. Utterly crap.

mathanxiety 5madthings I'd live at your houses, any day

Great post 5madthings :)

thankyou badgerina and i remember seeing my parents naked it doesnt bother me, i have one fond memory not long after my sister was born i was 6 and i was chatting to my mum in the bath and her breasts were obviously engorged and she was hand expressing some milk in the bath whilst she chatted to me, i found it quite fascinating! my boys were always interested when i expressed, infact when ds1 was little and i was expressing after having ds2 he went and fetched a cup so he could try some of the milk :)

thanks gurlwiththefrothycurl :)

Children in Germany and Scandinavia and other parts of the world seem unfazed by the sight of parental nudity. What it signifies is generally something dictated by culture and not innate.

'In a society where nudity is viewed as sexual, good luck trying to convince your children otherwise'.
-- In a home where nudity sometimes happens, or where breastfeeding happens about a dozen times a day, there is no luck involved. Children adopt the culture of the home and to them it is the wider culture that is abnormal.

No not all births are traumatic. But who gives you a guarantee which kind yours will be before you invite your young children in? Even if they aren't traumatic, they are still intimate, messy and painful. Why exactly should a child see that?
I can't imagine what difference it makes what position you birth in. The baby comes out of the vagina. If someone saw you giving birth, they saw your vagina. Even if you were kneeling on the bed, that still means you were naked from the waist down and your bare behind was on display for your young son to see. If thats OK with you, great.

Its very well to say your son was at liberty to leave, but are young children really mature enough to process all that and make those decisions in the moment? By inviting him in, you effectively took that choice from him. If there was a waiting area available, why didn't you let him stay there while you were pushing? Why was it necessary for a young child to see you push his sibling out? What purpose can that possibly solve?

Irrespective of whether you spread your legs or not, you do realise one is naked in the shower? If your children see you in the shower, they see you naked. When your son is thirty, he will remember what his mother's boobs and ass look like and he will know that she trims her pubic hair. Is that healthy or even normal?!

Nudity may not always be sexual, I am quite aware of that. I just don't understand why everyone in your family must see you naked so that you can reinforce your belief that nudity is natural.

Lastly, my nephews were not in anyone's bedroom. Please point out where I said that? They found the magazine in the sitting room while we were all in the kitchen. Then the kids were invited up to their cousin's bedroom to play (as is the routine) and there we found all the boys reading the VS.

To answer the question posed by the headline, Are you mom enough? The answer in my case is, No, I was not. I bf my dd till she was 26mths old. She was showing no sign of wanting to stop, but I made her stop. She wanted to carry on. I made her stop because of the attitudes in society (she is now 4) that seem to think there is something icky in extended bf'ing. I had just had one too many face when I told people i was still bf'ing her

I wish I had had the gumption to carry on. I love the photo.

it really wasnt messy not all birth are, it was my 5th birth i had already had four easy straightforward deliveries i know how i birth there was no reason for this to be high risk.
as for inviting him in, HE asked the minute he knew i was pregnant it was the first thing he said, i told him i would thinkb about it and i spoke to dp and my midwife and checked what the hospital policy was and then we talked to him about it, a LOT, and i saw my friend give birth no i didnt see her vagina, you dont have to look if you dont want to, my son sat in a chair to one side of the bed, the midwife was by my side to catch the baby so actually no i dont think he got some close up view of my vagina, have you ever in real life seen someone give birth?! tis really not always the way you are making it out to be. i ahve been a friends birth partner andi have given birth 5 times and not one of those births were as you are making describing and yes he saw my bum, so what?

and i know my son and i know how mature he is (very actually) as i said the midwife commented on how mature and level headed he was and that he was better than many birth partners she had seen over the years! we had talked and prepared for it for months beforehand and had he wanted to leave he would have. the purpose was he wanted to be there and we as a family decided it would be fine if that what was he wanted and it was an amazing experience for him, which he treasures, cutting the cord and holding his new sister was a once in a lifetime thing that he wanted to experience so we let him.

as others have sadi they bath with their children, their children see them naked it a hell of a lot more common place than your attitude that is wrong, there is nothing unhealthy or abnormal about it.

they dont have to see me naked, they can choose to come into the bathroom or bedroom etc.

and quite frankly i think your sister? is a crap aunty if when she had children visiting in the house she left essentiall pornorgraphic material lying round in the liiving room!

For somebody who doesn't care that her son saw her ass, you are sure getting needlessly prissy about a catalogue of models in bras. I would hardly call VS porn. Besides, seeing a strange woman naked is one thing. But seeing your own mother naked (if you are a boy)? That is sick!

Look, do what you like. Just know that at age 25-30, your sons will still have memories of what their mother's ass and boobs look like and whether or not she has pubic hair. Your daughter will remember how big Dad's dick is. If you think thats normal or healthy, then I cannot help you.

I know children see their parents naked. I am referring to parents of the opposite gender. I saw my mother naked, but never my dad. Thank God!

And for the last time- THEY WERE NOT MY SONS. THEY WERE MY NEPHEWS.

BTW, yes, I have seen three live births. They were certainly messy, painful and I did get to see the privates. It's hard to avoid the place the baby is coming out of. Good on ya, if you had an easy time but the process is generally painful and difficult.

they may be underwear catalogues but the poses in them are often of a more sexual or provocative nature and if you have young children around you wouldnt leave them lying around. young children looking at them wont understand the context and seeing your parents naked is VERY different from seeing models posing in underwear, most people can realise that.

as other posters have said their children see them naked, male or female, it is normal. i never said they were your sons, you said they were your nephews and i thought you said they found themat an aunts house, so i assumed maybe it was your sister but wasnt sure hence the ??

its not that hard to avoid looking at the place the baby is coming out of at all, my dp avoided doing so at all 5 births, you can stay head end, ds1 was sat hearish to my head end in the chair by the bed and yes i was lucky to have an easy time with my births and i am grateful for that and also pleased i got to share what a normal birth can be like with my son as that is what he wanted. lots of people have their childrne present at home births even young children. imo its good to get away from the other medicalised births that have become the norm, when these are life saving or what the mother wants they are great but it doesnt have to be taht way and i would rather my children knew there was an alternative.

and i dont care if my children do remember me naked i saw both my parents naked at times, at least they have seen a normal body and know what that looks like rather than some photo shopped image of someone in a catalogue, one sends out a healthy message and shows normality, the other does not.

Do what you want, it's a free country.

Just don't expect me to agree with your bizarre ideology.

If you think it's OK for a son to think "Mum had big boobs and trims her pubes" or a daughter to be able to recall the appearance and size of her father's penis, you are beyond help.

I should have guessed you would come up with a homebirth type of example. FWIW, I don't believe in home births either. But again, its a free country, so you are free to do it if you like.

yes free to raise my children in a healthy and loving home where they grow up comfortable with their own body and have a health body image.

i didnt expect you would believe in home births, thats your choice, but they are legal and safe in the right circumstances.

goodnight, i am off to snuggle up in bed with my partner and beautiful baby girl :)

Children can have a healthy body image even without seeing their parents naked.

its not a bizarre ideology btw i think you will find its normal for many parents in this country and around the world! others on this thead have already said their children see them naked, have baths with them etc. like i said i am confident in my belief in which one is more normal.

And I am confident in my belief that children should not see parents of the opposite gendet naked. Contrary to what a few people on mumsnet have said, it is not the norm for sons to see their mothers naked or giving birth. Nor is it commonplace for daughters to see daddy's ass and cock. Sorry, but that is not normal. It may work for you, but it will be bizarre to many people.

Thing is none of it is an ideology for me. I do what works.

'Besides, seeing a strange woman naked is one thing. But seeing your own mother naked (if you are a boy)? That is sick!'
-- Why? Is it because it is ok for boys to see women as sexually available and not ok for women to bare their bodies except for the purposes of advertising their sexual availability?

'Look, do what you like. Just know that at age 25-30, your sons will still have memories of what their mother's ass and boobs look like and whether or not she has pubic hair. Your daughter will remember how big Dad's dick is. If you think thats normal or healthy, then I cannot help you.'
-- Why might it be better for them to have a picture of VS models floating around in their heads for thirty years? Or are you saying the image of a mother's body will be forever etched in a boy's brain while the VS models' images will not?

'For somebody who doesn't care that her son saw her ass, you are sure getting needlessly prissy about a catalogue of models in bras. I would hardly call VS porn.'
-- There is a difference between the provocative poses of the VS models and the sight of the average mum in the shower. And VS is designed to be soft porn. Hence the excitement when the swimsuit issue comes out.

(And does it bother you at all that those images might be what potential partners of the boys will be competing with, or that those boys may be one day faced with a partner who wants to breastfeed their baby and will bring all the baggage that has been foisted on them to the discussion that will ensue?)

'Lastly, my nephews were not in anyone's bedroom. Please point out where I said that? They found the magazine in the sitting room while we were all in the kitchen. Then the kids were invited up to their cousin's bedroom to play (as is the routine) and there we found all the boys reading the VS.'
-- So they were simultaneously not in a bedroom and in a bedroom?

mathanxiety

At some point, girls and boys will view the nude bodies of the opposite gender sexually. At that stage, a memory of a naked parent can be unsettling and strange particularly for a teen who is struggling to make sense of raging hormones and impending adulthood.

As for provocative models- there is no escaping them. At some stage, despite your best efforts, children will be exposed to provacative celebrities, movies, books, magazines etc. That is an unavoidable part of the world today. How is that related to whether or not they should see their Parents naked?

So you are saying that sons who haven't seen their mothers naked are carrying baggage and will be unable to let their partner breastfeed? Does that make sense to you?

If I don't allow my young son to see me naked, it will scar him? I should think the oposite. If my son sees my ass and tits and pubic hair, there is a good chance he will be confused and unsettled or emabarrassed by that image at some point in his life.

I don't know what sort of hippy ideology you go by , but I am extremely glad I never had to see my dad's cock and ass.

Whatthehell - you seem to be obsessed with the idea that nakedness is essentially sexual at any age. It isn't and making it so is more likely to screw up your DC than allowing them to understand that nakedness is a normal and honestly, ground state for all human beings.

You appear to have a modesty ideology - good for you. You don't get the right to insult other people about their more openminded ideas on how children should be raised.

Giving birth - so many young children on farms would help out during calving or lambing etc. - getting right in there, cleaning off the birth products, helping out with the "gory" bits and getting up close and personal with a birthing animal - is that just wrong as well? what's wrong with children understanding basic biology and nature, how it all works?

Your opinions sound very repressed.

I personally prefer my privacy, and I don't feel particularly comfortable with my son (he's almost 5) seeing me naked, though it has and does happen a bit. I don't walk around naked when he's about, though in the mornings I'm often running around in my underwear trying to get us out of the house on time. :) I didn't see my parents naked and certainly wouldn't want to now!

HOWEVER, I don't think there's anything wrong with what 5MadThings is describing and I think her story of her DD's birth with DS1 in attendance sounds lovely. Just because it's not something I would be comfortable with doesn't mean I think it's "sick" or wrong.

In the movie "My Neighbor Totoro" there's a scene with the father bathing with his two daughters (I think they're around ten and four) and I didn't think it at all odd. The family is Japanese and I guess I just assumed it was normal for them.

So what you are saying is that a DS will see provocatively posed models at some point in his young life and I assume you think that is a matter for shrugging at since you do not seem to be too upset at that prospect, and there will be no problem there for a DS, whereas the sight of his own mother washing herself would be something he would carry around with him in a negative way for the rest of his life?

'As for provocative models- there is no escaping them. At some stage, despite your best efforts, children will be exposed to provocative celebrities, movies, books, magazines etc. That is an unavoidable part of the world today.'

'If my son sees my ass and tits and pubic hair, there is a good chance he will be confused and unsettled or emabarrassed by that image at some point in his life.'

Good point about farms. My mother spent a good deal of time in her childhood helping ewes and cows deliver, and saw the odd foal coming into the world too. (Grandad didn't let anyone near the mares but himself and the vet.) We are mammals too..

thumbwitch

I am repressed because I don't want to parade naked in front of my son? Or because I'd prefer to give birth without an audience?
I don't think this is repressed, it's just a matter of personal preference.

Yes, childbirth is normal and I have no issues with my kids being exposed to childbirth videos or a live birth when they are old enough to understand the process completely. I don't think however that it is compulsory for them to see me giving birth just so that they can be 'educated'. Why would you compare a farm animal giving birth to their own mother doing the same is beyond me. As it is, we don't live on a farm. If you think it's the same for children to see a dog or cow giving birth as it for them to see their own mother naked and giving birth, then I can't argue with you.

I don't think it is necessary for children to see mum delivering a child. They can be educated about the process when the time is right in other ways.

You are at liberty to call me repressed or a prude, but I honestly don't know too many people who would think it's a good idea to allow young boys to see their mum naked or to allow girls to see dad in the nude. Those of us who don't go to nude beaches or parade naked in front of family members aren't automatically repressed.

mathanxiety

The image of mum washing herself involves her nude body. Do you honestly think it is all right for a man at 30 to be able to recall the size of his mother's breasts, the way she groomed her pubic hair and the appearence of her behind? Or for a woman of say 25 to remember exactly how big dad's penis is and what his bum looked like? Everyone I know would find the thought quite strange if not horrifying.

If nudity is not sexual at all, would you allow your brother to see you in the shower? Or your Dad? Or your father in law perhaps? Would you be as comfortable if your son saw you naked when he is a man of 26? Why/why not?

On the whole issue of farm animals, would you be as concerned if your child saw a dog mating as you would be if he saw you having sex? Since we are also mammals, it shouldn't be a problem for you right?
My niece saw her dog having puppies. It isn't really the same as watching your mum have a baby.

This thread has nothing to do with nudity but I really don't see it as a big deal. I sleep naked, I wander around the house naked. Once my DSs were old enough to want privacy I threw on a dressing gown if wandering around- if they are not around I don't. I remember seeing my parents nude when I was little, it hasn't scarred me in any way and I don't think about it. My elderly mother had a broken leg a couple of years ago and I had to help her bath. It really isn't an issue. I wouldn't let them see me give birth because it might be distressing if I was in pain and I also want to concentrate on the birth.
I have nothing against extended breastfeeding, if people want to- I just hate that particular photo because the mother had her own agenda and exploited her child to portray it.

WhatTheHell - you have every right not to breastfeed, and every right to not want to parade in the nude, etc., and you can say that it would make you feel uncomfortable and of course, in your house, you can state your rules about family members and nudity.

However, it is not on to say it is SICK, or universally damaging for all children.

HTH

Exactly TanteRose.