Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

News

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

We Believe You - continued

419 replies

Frontpaw · 01/05/2012 16:58

The old thread was full. It was the first of a few I think.

OP posts:
Kushti · 02/05/2012 13:09

And I also think that a huge number of women have been raped while drunk but don't remember what had happened, or think they have consented when they haven't. This girl's story is only the tip of the iceberg.

Clearly I also think it is disgusting that men think they can get away with rape if the women is paralytic.

ApocalypseThen · 02/05/2012 13:11

Can I ask why the other footballer didn't get a conviction?

Well, as I've said before, I suspect it's down to the whole idea that if she wasn't actually struggling, consent was implied in this case, even if we all know that going to a room with someone is not consent and even if it were, that she would have had the right to withdraw consent. I imagine that the jury decided that going to the hotel showed that she did consent in the first instance, but the manner in which the second man came on the scene didn't imply consent in the same way.

I wasn't on the jury and am not party to any of their deliberations, however, knowing the reasons why women often fail to get a conviction in these cases leads me to suspect that that was what happened.

Kushti · 02/05/2012 13:11

ApocalypseThen - yes point taken, I do believe her, I am just hoping this thread is also going to highlight ways in which we can begin to combat this Sad

mrspepperpotty · 02/05/2012 13:11

I believe her

dottyspotty2 · 02/05/2012 13:13

Apocalypse makes some good points one of the reasons many VICTIMS of rape abuse etc don't come forward is because of the misconception of being judged by others because they judge themselves.

Their not to blame the perpetrator is you should be able to walk down the street with very revealing clothes , very drunk and be safe reality is that life isn't like that unfortunately.

spatchcock · 02/05/2012 13:14

I believe her x

TheRhubarb · 02/05/2012 13:16

Kushti, I have been that drunk that I'm sure a lot of people on this thread will have been too. We are responsible mothers who have all got a little carried away at times and I, like others, have found myself in vulnerable situations where I could have been taken advantage of. But believe it or not, it's against the law to take advantage of unconscious women.

You could be lying sprawled out on the pavement with no clothes on and you should be able to expect someone decent to help you home and not to rape you.

This implication that women put themselves into vulnerable situations works on the premise that men cannot control their own dicks and when they come across a pretty but drunk girl, they have to stick their penises in there.

Those two men made a choice on that night. They knew the girl was vulnerable. They had a hotel room booked specifically for the purposes of shagging someone. They didn't ask her consent, they presumed it and knew she was incapable of putting up a fight. They probably hoped she wouldn't remember anything the next morning and would just stay quiet. But the idiots filmed themselves and the hotel receptionist backed up her story.

Men are not children. They are grown up adults who make decisions and choices and now they have to face the consequences. It's a shame we have to drum it into our daughters never to walk home alone, never accept a drink from a stranger, never wear revealing clothes etc just in case some bastard decides he fancies a shag.

ApocalypseThen · 02/05/2012 13:17

I am just hoping this thread is also going to highlight ways in which we can begin to combat this

The only way (to my mind) is to hammer the point about what consent actually is home. I think if we start making women responsible for men's actions by forcing women to change their non-criminal behaviour so as not to give anyone an excuse to go around assaulting us, we're getting into very dangerous territory.

TheRhubarb · 02/05/2012 13:22

Thank you for explaining that Apocalypse.

Astr0naut · 02/05/2012 13:23

I believe her.

ErnesttheBavarian · 02/05/2012 13:25

anybody going to be emailing Brighton and Hove Albion re their 3 players? Their web site is a total mess! Looks like and over excited teenage boy designed it.

Anyway, it's an absolutely alarming epidemic of casual sex abuse in football atm, or so it seems.

Watched a programme t'other night about the 70's, how women were fighting for equality, pubs with rooms barring women, so sex equality act, equal pay etc. Our mothers' generation fought for so much, and so hard against oppression and injustice, and it honestly feels like in many ways we're worse off now than then :(

As for the lady in this case, I believe you! I'm grateful that you were strong enough to take a stand. I hope you can feel proud of yourself and the support from so many people.

It's time we took a stand against this.

LimburgseVlaai · 02/05/2012 13:25

Just got what seems to be a standard reply from the Liberal Democrats:

Thank you for contacting us regarding the comments made by Liberal Democrat council candidate Liam Elvish on Facebook about the Ched Evans case.
I would like to make it absolutely clear that the party does not agree with the views expressed by Mr Elvish. It is completely inappropriate and damaging to make light of offences such as rape. He has now recognised his mistake and has apologised for his remarks.
However, the Liberal Democrats take comments like these very seriously. The local party will be looking into these comments and will take appropriate further action.
Thank you once again for making us aware of your concerns on this matter.
Kind regards,
Rory Belcher
Liberal Democrats

NovackNGood · 02/05/2012 13:26

Very few rapes happen by a stranger attacking someone walking down a street so it should not be a judgement on the victim what they wear where they walk. Most rapes happen within the home within a relationship

TheRhubarb · 02/05/2012 13:26

An unfortunate surname for Rory there.

LadySybilDeChocolate · 02/05/2012 13:36

I've never considered myself to be a feminist, I do believe in equal rights for men and women though and I'm truly disgusted with what I see around me. Women are still not an equal, we are underpaid, spoken down to, raped, beaten and abused. It's no better in 2012 then it was in 1912 or earlier come to think of it. Something needs to be done. We are not blow up dolls for men to have sex with and abandon. What do I need to join? (sorry for digressing.)

Quenelle · 02/05/2012 13:38

I believe her.

bubbles12 · 02/05/2012 13:46

I believe her.

worldgonecrazy · 02/05/2012 13:49

I dislike the genearl Mumsnet "I Believe You" campaign because it implies a presumption of guilt by the third party without trial by peers, against one of the central tenets of British Justice.

However, this woman has had her case heard by a trial of peers and Ched Evans was found guilty. So YES I BELIEVE YOU.

NRaven31 · 02/05/2012 14:06

I believe her.

misriko · 02/05/2012 14:09

I have just emailed the Lib dems and wonder how on earth they can still pursue him as a candidate. Clearly if we have political candidates or political party members trivialising such an attack and calling Ched Evans sentence excessive we have a serious problem of the people running for government. He should be publicly shamed as should Mr. Evans and not be allowed to play for a professional team ever again. What kind of culture are we living in when celebs think they are one above and believe they can get away with what they do. Now its time to put a stop to this and to show them it is not on.

MoreTeaPenguin · 02/05/2012 14:40

I believe her.

It takes a lot to get me to un-lurk and post. I think she has been incredibly courageous and hope this show of support helps in some small way.

SeventhEverything · 02/05/2012 14:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Alutek · 02/05/2012 14:58

I believe her.

musttidyupmusttidyup · 02/05/2012 15:15

I believe her.

I have also contacted the libdems about Liam Elvish's appalling comments.

Frontpaw · 02/05/2012 15:35

He will probably just issue a mealy-mouthed 'sorry if anyone found my comments offensive'. Thats the worst apology ever.

OP posts: