We Believe You - continued

[Frontpaw]

The old thread was full. It was the first of a few I think.

Sorry x-post (sort of) with LadySybil

Savanna, I'm really sorry for your experience but I think there are some differences:

First, a second guy did not come along and have sex with you whilst you were passed out. If he had, at that point, you would have been too drunk to have consented. The person that you had sex with was the equivalent of Macdonald, who was acquitted, not Evans.

Secondly, as I understand it, Evans part in the rape was filmed, which was probably used in court and showed her lack of consent. Considering the conviction rates for rape are so low, if a jury found him guilty that means something.

Third, you didn't go to the police after did you? This woman did, knowing that what she was doing, bringing a charge of rape against a footballer, would lead to such public scrutiny, yet with no financial gain. My money is on her feeling strongly enough about it because it actually happened.

Lastly, wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world where a gentleman sees a drunk woman and instead of thinking "woohoo, fair game" puts her in a taxi and sends her home? What kind of sickness is it that these men felt it was ok to take advantage of her in this way? That in itself should be a crime IMO.

I think what I am trying to say is that I don?t believe her I think she got drunk went back with guys and then felt extremely bad for having sex with them and called rape. I fully support his girlfriend and I would do the same if it was my husband.

Ah yes, the well worn excuse that women simply regret having sex so they pretend they were raped. For no reason at all. Then they go through all of the proceedures for making a formal accusation - the internal exams, multiple interviews, all that - and manage to convince the police and the prosecution service and a jury. They waste all that time, effort and face all that humiliation and invasion because they regretted doing something perfectly legal. They keep their story straight under intense pressure and convince multiple people.

That's far more likely than that they've actually been raped as they've claimed.

Also, in this instance, she didn't go back with "guys". The guy who was finally convicted wasn't there by her invitation.

What you came up with is completely diffrent and of course that is rape. I only wanted to tell my story and give my op.

4 players charged with sexual assault and voyeurism. Of course they have only been charged and it will be a while before the case comes to court, so innocent until proven guilty, etc. However, there do seem to be an inordinate amount of stories and allegations of football players being involved with this sort of stuff.

I will say again that the FA need to be absolutely clear of their stance on this. Will they continue to condone such horrendous criminal acts by their members? Or will they put a stake in the ground and say that players found guilty of such acts will not be tolerated (or awarded). I am sure as hell positive that if someone who worked as a project manager or a civil servant would not be allowed his job back following a conviction for rape, much less still be allowed to collect a professional award after his conviction.

Incidents like this have been happening for years, Rindercella.

Just got the following reply from the Liberal Democrats

Thank you for contacting us regarding the comments made by Liberal Democrat council candidate Liam Elvish on Facebook about the Ched Evans case.
I would like to make it absolutely clear that the party does not agree with the views expressed by Mr Elvish. It is completely inappropriate and damaging to make light of offences such as rape. He has now recognised his mistake and has apologised for his remarks.
However, the Liberal Democrats take comments like these very seriously. The local party will be looking into these comments and will take appropriate further action.
Thank you once again for making us aware of your concerns on this matter.
Kind regards,
Rory Belcher
Liberal Democrats

Will keep an eye on the appropriate further action. I hope that this is done before Thursday

I believe her.

I can't get over just how frequent rape is in our society today. Disgusting and depressing.

Savannah

You woke up, and in your own words said you felt that you had not been raped.

Your experience is just that. Your Experience. So don't make the mistake of extrapolating your experience onto that of others.

The court found Evans guilty of rape. It is very hard to secure a conviction of rape. He was found guilty.

I believe her.

I think the thing about all this that's making me so angry is that so many people think it's the victim's fault for "getting themselves into that situation".

I don't know how to explain that it isn't consensual because she didn't say no.

It's rape because she didn't say yes.

I think the thing about all this that's making me so angry is that so many people think it's the victim's fault for "getting themselves into that situation".

Yep, and of course, they don't think about the very tricky road that's going to lead them down. If rape victims are responsible because they're in a situation, is a child responsible for being raped by a family member for being in that family? Is a wife responsible for being raped by a husband because she's in the same house? Is an elderly person in care home responsible for their rape because of their situation?

The fact is this. Nobody has the right to put as much as a finger on another person without their express consent. Being drunk is not consent. Existing is not consent. Being in a room is not consent. Being outdoors is not consent.

You do not touch someone unless they are OK with it. You just don't do it. No grey areas. None.

This thread is to support the woman in the Ched Evans case.

I believe you.

You articulate yourself so much better than I can apocalypse.

I believe her.

I believe her.

I believe her.

Men need to know that they can't rape women.
They can't rape drunk women.
They can't rape women wearing skimpy clothes.
They can't rape women who are their girlfriends and wives just because they are in the same room as them and they think they own them and have the right to!

I believe her

SavannaandAddisonmommy think that you're own experience is valid as it is your experience, however your circumstances were different and I think it isn't appropriate to come on a supportive thread for a girl suffering a backlash in the press and in small sections of society to state your belief.
This isn't AIBU.
Have some compassion for that poor girl

The Judge has no say in the verdict. He is the one who passed down the minimum sentence available to him.

Another way of putting what I said it is that young people are deliberately getting themselves into states where their judgement is seriously impaired to the point where they are completely out of control of their own actions on an alarmingly regular basis.

I certainly don't think that a woman deserves to be raped because she's was very drunk, but I do think that she would have seriously impaired judgement, may not be able to walk or talk properly and may even be unconscious. To me that is vulnerable and it worries me sick that my DD will be part of this culture.

Can I ask why the other footballer didn't get a conviction? Surely if she was too drunk to consent to one then she was too drunk to consent to the other?

I believe her.

Getting an obviously pissed women in a car, driving her to a hotel and then having sex with her is rape. They maintained she was in control of her actions, the hotel receptionist maintained that she was not and that hotel receptionist was so concerned that he/she went to the room to check on what was happening. I'm just sad they didn't report it to the police straight away.

To me that is vulnerable and it worries me sick that my DD will be part of this culture.

Mmmm. I think that's a concern for another thread. In light of the remarks that people have made about this woman, I'm sure you can see how it comes across as victim-blaming, even if that's not your intention.