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Soldiers Beating up teenagers in Iraq...

231 replies

MrsBigD · 12/02/2006 08:23

News of the World

Sky News

Just saw this on Sky News and am once again slightly amazed at the general population...

I can possibly understand the attitudes that the News of the World shouldn't have published the video footage due to maybe putting other soldiers in Iraq under thread of attack - though I don't agree.

However when they showed the result of the opinion poll whether soldiers accused of abuse should be prosecuted I just was amazed... a high percentage said 'NO'... I was just flabbergasted ... so if one is a soldier and happily goes along abusing the people of the country who they are supposed to protect it's ok to abuse them???? surely not.

OP posts:
spursmum · 14/02/2006 14:36

Sorry to interrupt the eloquent conversation that Kittyfish is providing but did anyone see the 'rest' of the footage that shows the local people attacking the squaddies.
Not that I think beating the lads is acceptable but at least this provides some context for the situation. If that makes sense.

Blandmum · 14/02/2006 14:37

He thinks it is totaly out of order, that the people should be found and tried in a court martial (with the proviso that the last one of these was faked by the Mirror IYSWIM)

If guilty they should be punished

As dh says he needs the geneva convention more than most....so the UK must support it, and be seen to be supporting it.

sharklet · 14/02/2006 14:38

DH and I sawit last night. It does put it into context and perhaps it makes some sense out of whyit happened. The fact remains it shouldn't have happened and they should have acted within the remits of the Geneva Convention.

Rhubarb · 14/02/2006 14:40

Disgusting that the media can interfere in this way, making their job tougher and putting their lives at risk.

I don't know anything about the Mirror ones, we've seen a bit of the footage on TV here, it looked awful. So many soldiers beating up 2 defenceless teenagers. No matter what happened before, we can't be seen to be doing that, the Iraqis will be baying for their blood now.

sharklet · 14/02/2006 14:40

I agree MB - if they are not seen to uphold it it puts active troops at more risk in the field.

Its very sad, wether its a fake or not the damage has already been done in many ways as the fundamentalists and insurgents will view it as factual what ever the outcome and it will breed more hatred.

sharklet · 14/02/2006 14:42

On Newsnight last night they showed more of the film Rhubarb, showing the activites and riots that led up to the event. The troops who took the prisoners were a "snatch squad" according to news night, tasked with taking out the ring leaders of the riots. However they should not have been treated this way while detained. Its really sad and shameful.

Blandmum · 14/02/2006 14:43

Rhubarb. I do agree that it will make things worse. But I also agree with the freedom of the press. If this happened, then people do have a right to know.

I do wonder why it was witheld for over a year before being shown.

The last one was photos of an Iraqi 'prisoner' being tortured, which proved to have been faked. Cost Piers Morgan his job as editor of the Daily Mirror. Oh how I cried, not.

kittyfish · 14/02/2006 14:47

I have been defending and justifying my position all through this discussion as you would realise if you had gone to the trouble of reading my posts instead of jumping to conclusions. In fact I did say that these lot are innocent until proven guilty which was a defense of the same people you are defending. I was amazed at the reaction I provoked, still am, and if I am rude (and I have read alot worse on MN) then you are seriously over sensitive to percieved insults.

I am sure you won't believe me but I do actually feel very sad for anyone with a partner, parent or child serving overseas.

Rhubarb · 14/02/2006 14:49

That they with-hold it though and then only show bits of it, that's not right.

sharklet · 14/02/2006 14:58

Kitty fish I did read your posts. Carefully, I agree with you on innocent til proven guilty and I understand that thats how you feel. I've tried until I'm blue in the face to try to explain to you why people who's families face thier loved ones being in a war zone would react strongly to your comment.

I am sure you do sympathise with forces families then understand that comments like that make our lives a lot harder, and make people far more likely to believe anything of our servicemen because after all "they're all a bit thick" So if you do feel for wives and families who's husbands are away then try to understand how your comments - however amusingly meant have been taken.

We weren't laughing becasue for us none of this is funny, and it just puts our families in deeper danger.

Blandmum · 14/02/2006 15:01

Well, so far you have called my comment 'pussy' infered that I am uptight, have no sense of humour (which I think regular mnetters will tell you is far from the case),am incapable of coping with forces life, you have said that i am being deliberalty obtuse, you have said that as an 'army wfe' I seem to feel I have the right to insult you, which I have not.

So, yes, I do think that you are being rude. You are also inacurate.

I have coped with far, far worse, and I shan't cry over it, but you are being rude. For the life of me, I don't know why.

doormat · 14/02/2006 15:06

If it is "fake" who are giving out these bits of disinformation and
why???
when they know it leads the servicemen in more danger
what is being gained here???

if not faked they should be dealt with and mitigating circumstances taken into consideration

as for the "duffing up" situation on a whole, it is not only resigned to soldiers etc but to a couple of other professions

Blandmum · 14/02/2006 15:07

dorrmat, I must say that the timing of this releace cnfuses me somewhat. Does anyone know why the NOTW held on to the tape for so long?

kittyfish · 14/02/2006 15:09

Also, I know squaddies arn't terribly blessed in the brains department, but after the furore over the Lindy england pics you'd have thought the guys in question would have said 'No cameras'.

This is what has caused this whole shebang. The whole original point was to say that they wouldn't be so stupid to film the beatings. Not that bad really, certainly not going to endanger anyone (other than me after this) and less damaging imo than assuming their guilt in the first place.

peacedove · 14/02/2006 15:11

Why do such things happen?

Despite protestations to the contrary, I suspect that among some Britons there is a very anti-nonWest feeling towards the people of the third world, particularly the Muslims. Has been so for as far back as the history I have read.

Some of them will get into the army, and will then act out their prejudices, especialy when they are under pressure.

Is there a screening to make sure people prone to such hate aren't recruited?

Or am I wrong?

kittyfish · 14/02/2006 15:11

MB I called my original comment pussy and I certainly didn't say or mean or imply that you couldn't cope with forces life. Just shows that you really arn't reading my posts properly.

kittyfish · 14/02/2006 15:13

BTW, notw probably published this now for maximum impact.

doormat · 14/02/2006 15:13

peacedove so you are implying that people are recruited because of their beliefs and conditioned
is that correct???

sharklet · 14/02/2006 15:14

Kittyfish, you don't need to repeat yourself. We know what you said, we've made it clear how we felt about that and the many subsequent comments you made. Please bleive I understand exactly your intention and meaning from your comment and while I agree with the general sentiment that one would think they wouldn't be that stupid, I still feel that your comment is out of line. The comments you made since that are worse, you have dug yourself in deeper and deeper.

Can you not just accept that people don't like their families being slagged off and generalised and get over yourself.

Thanks for the "support" for the troops - but think before your stick your size 10's in it in future.

Blandmum · 14/02/2006 15:16

you said

'If all your army friends are going to be offended by such a pussy comment how on earth do they cope with people who might actually want to kill them? ' infering that my freinds couldn't cope. Ah, so much clearer now, and strangly no less offensive.

And I read just fine.

peacedove · 14/02/2006 15:17

doormat, no I don't think my post can be read to mean what you have taken it to mean.

I said that people are recruited and there may not be a screening to keep out haters.

and I asked if I was wrong.

sharklet · 14/02/2006 15:18

"Don't know anyone below nco level though - they're a bit thick arn't they?"

Hmmmm yes that bits still offensive too. Do we need to go on?

tiredemma · 14/02/2006 15:18

peacedove, when i applied to join the army, there was no box on the application form that asked me if i was racist. i iamgine that 10 yrs later, there still isnt.

how do you "screen" for them? do they all have skin heads and union jack tatoos?

Blandmum · 14/02/2006 15:19

The armed orces dotry to screen out people who are mentaly unballanced.....not 100% sucessful.

I must say that I have never seen any overt anti non-western feeling among my dh's collegues. Some of them, dare I say it, are even muslims.

doormat · 14/02/2006 15:19

peacedove I took it the way I mentioned