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News

Soldiers Beating up teenagers in Iraq...

231 replies

MrsBigD · 12/02/2006 08:23

News of the World

Sky News

Just saw this on Sky News and am once again slightly amazed at the general population...

I can possibly understand the attitudes that the News of the World shouldn't have published the video footage due to maybe putting other soldiers in Iraq under thread of attack - though I don't agree.

However when they showed the result of the opinion poll whether soldiers accused of abuse should be prosecuted I just was amazed... a high percentage said 'NO'... I was just flabbergasted ... so if one is a soldier and happily goes along abusing the people of the country who they are supposed to protect it's ok to abuse them???? surely not.

OP posts:
Rhubarb · 13/02/2006 15:15

Last para - please read! My brother served in the armed forces too.

kittyfish · 13/02/2006 15:15

Yes, finally. As stated again and again, innocent until proven guilty.

Blandmum · 13/02/2006 15:15

quite agree

winnie · 13/02/2006 15:40

heard the commentary on radio 4 this morning and felt sick

wannaBe1974 · 13/02/2006 16:41

I'm still not convinced that the tape is genuine. that sound quality ... and the comuntary is definitely dodgy. I would put money on the fact that the comuntary at least is faked. And the news of the world should be tried as well. Withholding evidence is a crime in itself isn't it? So as they have withheld evidence of a crime, then whoever had the video should be tried and convicted along with the men who committed it.

These tacky tabloids just seem to do what the hell they want and are never held to account over it, the news of the world is not the moral guardian of the great brittish public.

MrsBigD · 13/02/2006 17:23

I wouldn't take what's in a tabloid for gospel... but generally where there is smoke... and rumours even far fetched or sentsationalist ones start off somehow.

Never would think of NOTW being the moral guardian of the great british public though...

OP posts:
sammac · 13/02/2006 17:33

I know the expert that has the job of sorting out the authenticity or not of the tape. He only got the call yesterday from the military about it and will get it this week sometime.

sharklet · 13/02/2006 17:45

Kittyfish, If your in such support of British Troops and are upset with the lack of respect for them then why are you adding your tuppence worth yourself? "squaddies arn't terribly blessed in the brains department"

FYI I have many friends in the UK and US armed forces at many different levels of rank and none of them are stupid, in fact many of them are very intelligent men and women. If you support them stop slagging them off and adding to stereotypes. It doesn't really help anyone but just fans the flames.

CoolTurkey · 13/02/2006 17:51

The trouble is, even if it is a fake, the papers won't give up as much space to the findings. They will have moved onto other things to sell papers. And the original tape may well remain as 'fact' in the East. So the damage may well already have been done.

Blandmum · 13/02/2006 17:52

sharklet, dh is in the RAF, has a tested IQ of over 150, O level, A levels and a degree from Oxford, so hes not stooopid

sharklet · 13/02/2006 17:56

Glad to hear it MB, DH is an NCO in the US Airforce, saem story, he's a well educated intelligent man, as are lots of my other forcs freinds. Drives me nuts when people just refer to them as if they were dumb animals!

kittyfish · 13/02/2006 20:08

Its a fair cop Sharklet, slapped wrists for inconsistency. However, I do think it is a little rich having a go at me when there are an awful lot of people on this thread baying for the blood of these soldiers and calling them things a lot worse than a bit thick.

Rhubarb · 13/02/2006 21:04

Who's baying for blood? I see a lot of people calling for action and punishment if they are found to be guilty. Swift action too so that the people of Iraq can see that we do not take this lightly.

It might be fake, but then again it might not and surely the whole point behind this discussion is what action would be taken if it was to be found genuine?

paolosgirl · 13/02/2006 22:17

And don't forget that we also want swift action and punishment for the thugs who threw the grenades and attacked our troops, putting their lives in danger. Let's not forget that the action of these people could have resulted in another widow, another child without a father, another parent without a child. Mmm?

MarmaladeSun · 13/02/2006 22:31

Kittyfish...you condemn the lack of pride in our armed forces...and yet you make a ridiculous statement like squaddies aren't blessed in the brains department??? Well...where is the pride in that statement? I am married to a 'squaddie' and he is one of the most intelligent people I have ever known. Have you any idea of the guts it takes to deploy to a war zone? To face being shot at every time you step outside? To say goodbye to your wife/husband and kids not knowing if you will ever see them again? What a stupid f*ing statement.

kittyfish · 14/02/2006 09:59

Jesus Christ, Marmalade I think I've already apologised if you'd bothered to read my last. As one of the very few on this thread sticking up for the British Army I am astonished that a single tongue in cheek statement has caused such a vociferous post from you. How about having a go about the condemnation of these troops without a shred of evidence? No, why bother, lets just just get hot under the collar 'cos someone dared call squaddies thick. Gasp, shock horror. Your husband may well have an Einsteinesque IQ but living near several army & air force bases leads me to think that he is the exception not the rule.

sharklet · 14/02/2006 10:34

Kittyfish -

I pulled you up on what you said becasue it was obviously hypocritical. I've already said my bit onhow I feel about the tapes and what should be done. In a discussion you don't have to shout at everyone you disagree with - however if someone is clearly talking rubbish you might well call them out on it, as I did you.

I can see exactly why marmalade feels the way she does, I too am married to a serivceman and feel that comments like yours are extremely insulting especially when the person saying them claims to be doing their bit to support our boys. Absolute rubbish!! How can you be supporting them when your slagging them off? If someone starting spouting stereotypes about mums or women being stupid and vapid you'd proabaly have something to say about it - so understand why service familes feel strongly about having thier loved ones slated.

Perhaps you do live nr various bases - so do I, and no the majority of them are not stupid - do you really think that really stupid people would be let loose with millions of pounds worth of kit in a hostile situation? Do you have any idea of the complexity of trades in the armed forces? Of course you don't. I used to live near a university - and the behaviour of some of the students might make you believe they were stupid - but clearly they're not! Young people in any career path will behave in certain ways in a crowd - which is what you must be referring to. It doens't mean they're thick as two short planks.

Your just sticking with stereotypes and people who say ih yeah we support the troops but they're pretty stupid arent they - well thats the kind of "support" our service men and women could do without!

kittyfish · 14/02/2006 11:15

It is not hypocritical to say that I support British troops where ever they are deployed but that I also think that the lowest ranking of these troops are not particularly clever. I am sorry if I offend you by this statement. No doubt I will get shot down no matter what I say from here on in but who cares.

"do you really think that really stupid people would be let loose with millions of pounds worth of kit in a hostile situation" - I am pretty sure that the BA doesn't let the thickies near its shiny tanks or rocket launchers. As far as I am aware the lowest echelons are only given a gun. There is intensive training to become a tank driver - the stupid squaddies wouldn't get through the training and would remain where they are in rank etc.

"Perhaps you do live nr various bases - so do I, and no the majority of them are not stupid" - are you talking about the bases not being stupid with this statement? Oops, shouldn't joke, will be taken seriously. You haven't exactly backed up your arguement here.

"Do you have any idea of the complexity of trades in the armed forces? Of course you don't." Assumptions are clearly not allowed so please don't assume things about me. I have many army and airforce friends including a Major General so I have a pretty good idea of the multitudinous jobs available within the services. Don't know anyone below nco level though - they're a bit thick arn't they?

"the behaviour of some of the students might make you believe they were stupid - but clearly they're not!" - as students now have to have remedial writing lessons and be taught how to think for themselves the jury is out on that one.

All you have done so far is shout that I'm wrong - still don't see it myself.

Blandmum · 14/02/2006 11:24

The people that I know have highly tecnical jobs that require a great deal of skill and expertise. How would you fancy flying in a jet that had been serviced by a 'bunch of thickies'? No, me neither.

I have met many, many service personel over 18 years of marriage, and, hand on heart, none of them has been thick.

kittyfish · 14/02/2006 11:30

Yes but you need a level of intelligence to do a techie job. The training is going to weed out the thickies so they stay where they are. The more intelligent ones rise through the ranks. Obviously no one on MN would be seen dead with a Private which is why none of you think that there are stupid people in the Forces.

tiredemma · 14/02/2006 11:32

Did anyone see sky news last night? some high ranking officer said that what was filmed was nothing different to what would be dished out around the back of a pub in Belfast in the 70's.

Blandmum · 14/02/2006 11:33

I think you are being horribly offensive and are talking through the back of your neck. You haven't met all these people so have can you possibly know that they are all thick?

If this is your idea of 'support' I rather feel that the forces could do without it.

sharklet · 14/02/2006 11:45

Kittyfish

I was trying to get you to realise why forces families might react in a strong way to your very generalised statement. Something which you seem completely unable to visualise.

I apologise for my syntax error in typing my reply to you, how stupid of me. I'm not in the services, I'm an artist, so I'm afraid my error doesn't do anything to support your arguement that our armed forces are all a bit thick as you seem to think it does.

How nice that you know a Major-General, did he send you on a course which gives you such a vast knowledge of the responsibilites of servicemen. Below the level of NCO is a wide range of resposibilites and specialties. How do you think people get to be NCOs? You don't automaticaly become an NCO when you join up - its only as a commissioned officer that you leap to a rank immediately.

"Don't know anyone below nco level though - they're a bit thick arn't they?"

Your just showing yourself up as bigoted and are stereotyping. It doesn't show anything to me other than ignorance and self importance. That kind of attitude makes me sick.

Either way please show a bit of respect for the fact that tarring everyone with the same brush is going to upset some people. As I said before if people started sterotyping you then I'm sure you'd have something to say. While you might be a bit pissed off with someone sterotyping you, the situation with forces families tends to be more emotional. Often their loved ones who they feel are being slated are either deployed in a danger zone or about to be sent out to one. In a situation like that emotions run high when you hear them being slagged off, especially when the person doing the slagging thinks they're being terribly supportive of them. Many families find it frustrating thier loved ones are being sent in to a war many of them don't believe in, comments like yours make it much worse.

You can't expect to be patted on the back and told what a clever girl you are for saying nice things about the troops on one hand even though you also say they're a bit stupid. It might have been a tongue in cheek comment, but those are often the worst kind, the more of thoese the more the stereotype is strengthened.

I repeat that kind of "support" is something that our troops can do without!

I apologise for taking it seriously - which you seem to think is funny. If you were part of a forces family you might understand how comments like that aret aken seriously, and if you are part of a force family - shame on you.

kittyfish · 14/02/2006 11:47

It really is as if you don't read my posts properly. I am awfully sorry you're so upset by this but tell me where I am being so insulting? Stupid people stay at the bottom of the heap no matter what they do in life. And if you really believe that everyone in the army has an IQ of 150 or higher then you are very naive. Do you not realise that stupid boys come out of school and join up 'cos they don't know what else to do?

Blandmum · 14/02/2006 11:50

No, kitty fish, I know that not everyone has an IQof 150 in the army. The UK average is 100. So not everyone outside the forces would have an IQ of 150 either.

I just get very annoyed at the automatic assunption that all memebers of the armed forces are thick. This simply isn't true in my experience. And I'll bet next months wages I have met a lot more AC1 and Ac2s than you have