More on the cartoons for those without broadband

[Blandmum]

Here is a question.

Muslims says that the prophet cannot be protrayed and that for anyone to do so is a basphamy. But how can you blaspheme something you don't belive in?

As I understand it orthodox Jews say that it is a blasphamy for someone to write out the word of god. They would write G*d. Does this mean that Jews have the right to demand that Muslims stop writing the word Allah (since Muslims worship the same god as Christians and Jews)

WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO ALOHA?

She got carried away

Understandable but not defendable

She did get a bit carried away... but we still love her. And, frnakly, she's been puniched enough. Come back, Aloha.

When did this thread suddenly become about being opposed to Sharia Law? I thought it was about the cartoons. I suppose if you want to to a quick search of the web for any old ad hock evidence that supports your bigotry then go ahead. With every post you all dig yourselves in deeper and reveal the depth of your own intolerance and hatred. It is really impossible to have a civilised debate with any of you on this as you all have your own pathetic motives for carrying on with it. Some of you obviously need to get out more as you've forgoten the the basic tenets of civil social interaction. I've had enough of this anyway. Enjoy what you've created here. I've no doubt Wiltshire will be along in a mo to congratulate you too.

As for Aloha this is what I said on another thread - She hasn't been banned so she can stay if she wants. Are none of us fallible? None of us wrong sometimes? This is a close call but Aloha mada a mistake by getting angry - especially, as a professional, we all know she knows better than to do this - she knows that too, we're not fucking idiots and mollycoddling each other when we're wrong - even when we like each other isn't going to help anyone. She's big and clever enough to deal with it. For fucks sake I'm tearing my hair out over this so God knows what Justine is doing? Can we not think of the site for a moment?

And religious bigotry? Bigotry more like - plain and simple!

Monkeytrousers,

You are obviously not reading this properly, or you would have seen that Saadia specifically said that she would like to see us tried and sentenced under sharia law. That's where it comes in. So did Singed and burned on the other thread.

I think I have been civil. Feel free to disagree. At any rate, I haven't thrown around names like pathetic as you have.

Agree with Monkeytrousers

Who I think should have some kind of prize for staying cool

Very sad that this is still going. Sad that people feel they need to defend their God, is he not capable of doing that himself? As Saadia herself said, they are accountable to God, so they will get their just desserts someday.

This isn't about murder or rape or assault, this is about someone having no respect for the Muslim religion. Sad yes, everyone should be respected, but hardly a crime fit for the death penalty. I thought only God had the power to say who dies and who does not. If you condemn someone to death are you not guilty of playing God? Are you not guilty of judging (again another thing that only God can do)?

What a shame that your religion cannot rise above this, rise above the hecklers and disrespecters and prove yourselves better than they are. But by reacting in this way you are bringing yourselves down to their level and you are leaving a mass of destruction and intolerance in its wake.

I'm surprised that so many so-called educated people on here talk so little sense. But then, after reading Brian Keenan's book, I'm more disturbed really.

Poppadum, no I didn't see that particular post but I saw many last night goading her into a position where she was so angry that she lost her articulacy. That has been your main strategy and it's plane for everyone to see - insult people so much that they get riled and then pick up on the inevitable holes that develop in their arguments. It's pathetic and you should be ashamed of yourselves. Have you no capacity for critical self analysis?

I'll tell you one thing that you lack and Christians have, it's the gift of forgiveness. Without that I think you are all just very bitter and twisted, religion or not.

i hardly think saadia's statement that she would like to see us all tried and sentenced is that of a person "who has lost her articulacy." I would ask you to read her exchange with bloss further down below. it is not the response of an angry person. it is the response of a person who truly believes that she is right.

as for insulting saadia, i challenge you to find one instance where I or indeed anyone has ( except maybe aloha, whose posts i have not read). I have challenged her beliefs, but have not flung any insults about.

I think Monkeytrousers 9:13 post is slanderous and certainly wouldn't qualify her for an medal of honour.

I am not here on any team. I truly seek to understand the scale of the reaction to these cartoons. It seems rather out of proportion to the crime to me. And I have only just learned what Sharia Law is (am still rather ignorant on it actually). But what I have read so far has no place in my world if I have any say about it.

Furthermore, I find it interesting that people are arguing that we in the west should be more respectful and abide by the rules of Islam. Yet, how do you think it would go down if we wanted to build a catherdral in Basra? Or how about Tehran?

I am afraid I was offended by the demonstration and the extremes comment, who wouldn't be?

I don't think this is about religion it appears they are racist in their comments against Europe.

I think it's about time something was done. one man came out of his van to protest about the comments and he was told to get back in his van,etc. This isn't right freedom of speech is ok but not when it is offend so many and that was there intend.

I am sick of these extremist hinding behind the name of their religion. There are trying to cause hatred in the country.
Sorry for this rant but it had to said . larsxx

How about typing something along the lines of;

"I'm really sorry if you think I have offended anyone. I can see that people have been upset by this thread and although I might disagree with the reasons why they are upset, it makes no difference to the way they feel and for that I am very sorry. So let us part on good terms and show that we can actually move on from this."

Or perhaps you people are not big enough for such a post?

Sorry typing fast here and it had to be said I'm afraid. larsxx

By the way, I'm STILL waiting for Saadia to answer my question from lasst night about what would be an acceptable punishment for a non-muslim who insulted a sacred prophet? Is it prison? A punch in the face? Death? Would she be so distraught that she would kill herself?

uwila - shut up and let it lie.

I've asked for it to be deleted so can you all just go home and feel happy that you've upset so many people? Me included and I haven't even been bloody arguing!

There are people on this thread that have earned my respect.

Poppadum (I shall now think of you whenever I have a curry (-: ) and Wintersun to name 2.

Poppadum continued to be polite despite revealing what insults she had received. I have no religion but would never have dreamed of referring to her the way that someone of a differing religion did.

And Wintersun, can I just add my thanks for coming on here and expressing your muslim opinions. You are right you should not have to apologise for others who have no connection to you. Unfortunately they do things in the name of the same religion as yours. I think that publishing these cartoons was meant to hurt muslims and I am glad that you appreciate that not all of us would do this even if we have the 'right' to.

I'n not ignoring all you christians and others but I feel it is nice to hear from someone whose religion I don't come across very much such as hindu.

Whilst there are people like these around I still have hope that the world could resolve its problems and we can all live in peace religion or no religion.

rhubarb,

with all due respect, could you just not read the thread? I am trying to say this nicely, so please do not misunderstand my tone. the smiley face is inadequate for this purpose.

I am happy to agree with your apology post. you will forgive me if I dont have the time to retype it now.

Ummm... did I say something offensive? Can we not discuss this topic? I understand that there's been some name calling and nasty things flung around on here, but I thought we were discussing Islam and the reasons for the reactions to the cartoons.

I am genuinely seeking to understand why the reastions are considered reasonable to muslims.

Forgiveness comes after a process of learning Rubarb, there is moral superiority on the art of forgivenss simply due to being Christian - it's those kinds of statements that infer inferiority that get people angry.

lars, that's exactly all I've been arguing for from the beginning. People seem determined to distort things to their own agenda however, althoughg I'm not even sure some people know what that is themselves and would even claim they had no agenda at all, yet a psychologist wouldn't have a problem working it out from the thread.

I'm going to look after my son now.

typo - there is no moral superiority on the art of forgivenss simply due to being Christian

poppadum - I have read the thread, it says nothing that the old thread hasn't already said, saadia is being goaded again, Caligula and Martianbishop are getting hot under the collar. What point do you hope to make with this thread exactly? That religion cannot live side by side? That it will always come down to petty point scoring and insulting? That your religion is better than theirs?

Tell me what the point is please!

I do think the cartoon was in bad taste partically at this delicate time, but I thnk the protests were even more offensive.

I think we need to remember this was not the whole of the muslim population reacting like this.
My B.I.L is muslim and we have discuss religion many times. It is a sin to take a life in all religions, please remember this was a small group re-acting in a very extreme way to cause offense. larsxx