Diane Abbott....racist comment or not?

[festi]

I think If you look and consider what she said in the context of the discussuion she was having. I believe she has a very valid point, she did make a generalised remark and by definition that was racist, but, it was in my opinion acceptable for her to generate discussion and break down the barriers that exist (the fear of counter accusations of racism) in discussuing the exposure openly.

Sorry to all Abbott apologists - as I've said, I like her and wish she hadn't done it - but she said "White people like to ..." She tweeted it, for god's sake, she knows how to tweet. She didn't say "Historically, white people ..." She made it present day. It was every ounce as bad as my neighbour saying the black man needs overseeing.

"This is what racism looks like:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2083403/Liverpool-racism-allegations-Police-probe-Tom-Adeyemi-breaks-tears.html"

This also www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/20/liverpool-luis-suarez-patrice-evra and I'd argue that black europeans have more power in English soceity than South American immigrants. However a non-white south american immigrant calling a black european racial slurs is still a racist act. Or is it not racist at all because the offender is not white and not part of the political power?

FGS, the whole point is that it's wrong to consider anyone less valuable on account of intrinsic characteristics like race, gender, ability, etc, etc! It doesn't matter if you're green or purple, the person doing the insulting is wrong.

What's so hard to understand?

In case you hadn't seen it: this is what Collymore puts up with. MmeLindt took a screenshot of some of his saved tweets before his account was protected.

He is privileged, yes, but nobody should have to put up with that.

~ I realise you weren't plonking yourself in one position or the other, mayor. I just don't understand why some people think abuse only counts one way. Abuse is wrong.

But taken in WHAT context, Whatmeworry? Certainly not in the context she was talking.

If you can't take DA in context then you have probably not read the full exchange and are being either dim, naive or deliberately obtuse, or some combination thereof.

I also despise her and agree with the poster who said she had been promoted above her ability. She is a hypocrite and should have been gone long ago.

Erm, yes, I have read the full exchange actually. Can't see what she said was relevant in the context. But then, maybe I'm just dim.

PS, wind your neck in.

PS, wind your neck in.

Nice.....

I will take that as "how dare you have an opinion different to mine and voice it, but I as can't argue with it I will insult you instead".

Free speech is clearly not your thing, is it?

No, take it as in don't go around calling people dim if you don't want to be called up on it.

Free speech isn't my thing? You are making yourself look ridiculous, you realise that, don't you?

@Garlicfrother
yes completely agree. That was the point I was trying to make. Thunderbolts is asserting that people in a minority or without "power" can not be racist, and she posted a story of a black football fan receiveing racist abuse the other night (although I'm not sure if the ethnicity of the perpetrator is known yet) as an example of what "REAL RACISM", the implication being that unless it's a white person doing the racial abuse then it's not racism and that we're all just being faux-offended by the god awful racist Diane Abbott.
The story I posted was of a non-white, non-european immigrant raciall abusing a black person of European origin. This according to Thunderbolts can not be considered racist as it was a minority who was perpetrating it. Which of course is nonsense.

MrsdV I am not taking issue with your posts! I am sorry you get that impression, I think we are actually agreed on most points.

My objection was to those posters who appear to me to have clearly stated that no white person can be legitimately offended by DA or find her racist because historically and in present day white people have the power. I and others havepointed out at length how ridiculous that is on so many, many levels. The debate does seem to be getting a bit circular now but it has been a bit of an eye opener...

Ok fair enough

White people have as much right to be offended by something a black person says as the other way round.

I will challenge it if someone I know makes a crass remark about 'whites'. White women dont know how to look after their mixed race children's hair, white women cant cook etc etc. I wont have it, same as I wont if its done about black people.

DA offended me hugely with her remarks about WI mothers being better than white ones. I was furious.

But I still feel that the balance of power is very much skewed in the favour of white people. This despite the way BNP etc keep trotting out the 'second class citizen' line. People are beginning to believe its not true.

The real issue is that the affluent hold the power. The educated and the priviledged.

DA is all of those. Being a black woman does not cancel out all of those advantages.

However down wit da yoot she thinks she is.

Heres a sweeping statement and i will start it with IMO, Diane Abbott, Darcus Howe, Lee Jasper and Marc Wadsworth are Racist. They have said things over the years and certainly this week that have been unacceptable and if they had flown out of the mouths of Nick Griffin would have been seized upon (quite rightly) by every corner of the media. I have been left stupified by how they have gotten away with the bile i have heard them spew,

Nick Griffin gets away with spewing bile from his disgusting gob and printing it out on bits of paper and posting it through people's letter boxes. He tells blatent lies and presents them as facts.

He has yet to be arrested as far as I know. He is still the leader of a political party with all that involves.

Define getting away with it.
DA has been criticized by all corners of the media and her resignation has been demanded.

So where is the unfairness? Where is the difference?

NG 'gets away'with it?
Are you mad?
Whatever you think of his politics, the hassle, abuse and constant surveillance that man and the BNP get is above and beyond anything experienced by any ther politician.

He tells blatant lies and presents them as facts. - Yeah, he's a politician. They all do. He doesn't get away with his most absurd ravings, though. The ones in power have come out with some shockingly classist bollocks lately (and disablist, Dave) which could do with more public censure imo. But that's a whole other conversation.

No I am not mad. Dont be ridiculous.

How do you know he is harrassed and abused more than anyone else?
He gets away with it because he is still in a postion of power and is still being paid to do his 'job'.
He still has all the priviledges accorded to someone in his positon.
He has not been arrested or gagged.
He is free to keep peddling his message of hatred.

Please dont expect me to feel sympathy for a man whose very presence in an area cause hate crime to rise.

He DOES get away with his most absurd ravings. Of course he fucking does. Just because Bonnie Greer treats him with polite contempt it doesnt mean he has faced any censure.

The BNP sent out leaflets saying that 80,000 Turkish Muslims of working age were about to enter the country to steal British jobs. Despite this being a blatent lie and an encitement to race hatred I cannot find a record of any sort of punishment being meted out.

This is ONE small example of the sort of lie he tells. That old cliche 'they all lie' is a cop out.

I never asked you to feel sympathy for him.
You should read the response more carefully before sounding off.
I have no time nor sympathy for NG but I know that he is harassed continuously and lives in constant fear of his life.
(A friend of mine interviewed him which is where I get some of my information from. The rest i read for myself-like you probably do.)

I didnt say you did.
Please read my posts more carefully before sounding off.

Please dont expect me to feel sympathy is a general term and doesnt indicate that I am responding to a direct request from you to expect me to feel sympathetic.

Do you see?

He gets away with it. He is still in post and he is still treated as a legitimate MP.
He is in constant fear for his life because he is extrodinarly paranoid. This is clear from his responses to any challenge to his spurious statements. The whole world is against him. Those that do not agree with him are just pretending, everyone is lying, those people who showed him to be the wattless twat he is were planted in the QT studio by communists blah blah.

I would expect that any high profile, controversial political figure is in as much if not more danger than NG.
AGAIN he has got away with it. He has not had to resign or has he been arrested.

As annoying as DA is I have yet to read or hear of here advocating violence against people due to the colour of their skin or because of their religion.

If all he did was make irritating sweeping statements about black people your comparison might be more relevant.

Somew of what you have said earlier in this thread was relevant and interesting.
This unbalanced ranting isn't.

Dont be so silly.

I am neither ranting or unbalanced.

You pretending I am with the little passive agressive 'some of what you said..' added in just makes you look a bit desperate to have the last word.

Be my guest.

I haven't noticed any unbalanced ranting. From mrsdeV at any rate.

NG does seem to be routinely despised in mainstream media, which is just as it should be. Same mainstream media however seems to be rushing to tell me how pathetic I am to objecting to an elected politician being racist if she is DA. World gorn mad etc, etc.

Of course I am not saying DA comes anywhere close to NG as she has not asked to be elected on a platform of organised racism. But she does seem to share his world view that we should be grouped and judged according to our skin.

MrsDV: That old cliche 'they all lie' - This is why I said it's a wider conversation, and illustrates the dangers of a narrow focus. I'm disabled and living on benefits. Not only do I face increasingly humiliating 'trials' to receive decreasing assistance, I have to live amongst a hailstorm of "benefit scrounger" abuse from every newspaper, TV programme and overheard conversation I encounter all day, every day. I have to hear people arguing that people like me should be left to die.

The hate lies I live with are propagated by our unelected leaders and their wimpish 'opposition'.

& what Spero said about being grouped and judged according to our skin. If you can't pick on someone for their skin or ethnicity, let's go for their state of health or their social rank. Whoever can't see that Abbott perpetuated social infighting as much as Griffin, Cameron, et al, will probably be terribly surprised when this all ends in mayhem. I thought Abbott would, when push came to shove, side with the general mass of ordinary people. I may have been wrong.