Diane Abbott....racist comment or not?

[festi]

I think If you look and consider what she said in the context of the discussuion she was having. I believe she has a very valid point, she did make a generalised remark and by definition that was racist, but, it was in my opinion acceptable for her to generate discussion and break down the barriers that exist (the fear of counter accusations of racism) in discussuing the exposure openly.

Kelly.
Thunder is saying that anyone who disagrees with Abbotts views is a misogynist and a racist.

Of course but I was illustrating the end product of this white=bad, black=good mindset. People will and are getting thoroughly poked off by it with justification IMHO. It is up to all members of society as it stands now (not 100 years ago) to make it work. Otherwise we stand a chance of becoming like NI with polarised sets of communities who mutually distrust each other. Except they have 2 main groups and we would have a myriad, having witnessed the casual racism between some south asians and black, caribbean blacks and african blacks, whites and blacks, whites and asians, asians and whites, blacks and whites, mixed race stuck in the middle poor buggers..

We are all just people, we should judge and be judged on our own merit, not for what some disconnected people with similar skin colour did hundreds of years ago.

But for me, this isn't just about the tweet. Were my concerns about her limited to that one incident, would probably accept much ofnwhat that article says, bitof a flap about not much. But it's not just that tweet is it? She seems to be systematically, repeatedly racist.

You can dress it up as much as you like in repercussions of colonialism, historical oppression etc, etc but the fact remains she is paid by the taxpayers to represent her constituents, ALL of her constituents, not merely the ones who are demonstrably non Finnish. If I were one of her constituents I would now have no confidence in her at all.

I am grateful to this thread for illuminating to me for the first time the true extent of her stupidity and racism.

fog,
How can thunder possibly think that saying because Abbott is female and black anyone who disagrees with her is racist and sexist.

The mauling she's getting is down to racism and misogyny too.

thunders wrote it maybe she can explain it?

Wow. I missed that comment. So now I am the racist? Crikey.

What appalling bollix.

Of course the UK is heading - slowly - towards racial harmony.

But it's not black people who divided it in the first place. White people - all of us - have got a lot of listening to do before we get there.

It behoves those who are privileged through being born into the right group to listen to those who haven't been so lucky. No black person in the UK has been born into a group that has had centuries of oppression, war and exploitation ensuring that they stay 'on top'.

Own your privilege.

Everyone who is criticising DA is a racist and misogynist because we just are,isn't it a strange opinion?
I suppose we should have just not commented on it and put it down to another one of her bad days at the office.

you're a racist and a misogynist, Spero

(we all are, apparently)

Your speech has absolutely nothing to do with DA and her racist agenda VG.
Stop enabling her.

It's very telling that thunderandlightening is getting a right bashing, while some seriously questionable views expressed by others are going almost ignored...

thunder is getting a bashing because her stance is ludicrous

The past has everything to do with our contemporary society. The relative positions of different genders, sexualities and races RIGHT THIS MINUTE has everything to do with how things have been - often forcibly - organised for centuries (in some cases).

It's exactly why I've been saying that DA's comments are NOT the same as a white person saying it about a non-white person. It just isn't, and pretending it is is simply ridiculous.

Whereas the poster who is staying juuuuuuust this side of telling non-white people go leave the UK - her position is just fine, I take it?

thunder has called 99% of anti-racists on here racists and misogynists what do you expect?

The past in this context has absolutely zilch to do with what Abbott has said and done. This is the straw that broke the Camels back.
I suppose you think the Finnish nurses deserved her hate too?

Even the definition of racism is built on the past. Seeking to break that link is pointless.

Victor, if you read OldMumsy's subsequent post that is not what she's saying

Open a bible VG and read it.
Start with the Pharaoh and the Jews.
Then come back and explain institutionalised racism and how Britain caused it.

Oh, she changed her stance after being called out on it. By one poster. But that original post came very close to being ACTUALLY RACIST, and only one poster said anything.

By contrast, lots and lots of posters are calling thunderandlightening. Who is not being racist, but is pointing out the definition of racism as accepted by those who actually work to combat its existence.

I don't think that counters anything Victor is saying, foglike - all it might prove is that the bible has often been used as a powerful tool in the narrative of racism in this country.

To be honest, I've done all the explaining I feel like doing in this thread. When one side of the debate seeks to constantly call the other side ignorant it's never really going to go anywhere, is it?

As opposed to one side calling the other side racist and misogynistic ?
Unbelievable!!

"No black person in the UK has been born into a group that has had centuries of oppression, war and exploitation ensuring that they stay 'on top'."

Errrr what about a black person whose family come from an African tribe that has, through centuries of oppression, war and exploitation ensured that they stayed "on top"?

Racism isn't as simple as black vs white really is it? There is a lot of racism between people of the same "colour" - eg the caste system in India, oppression towards minority tribes in places like Rwanda, fighting between the different types of muslims (Sunni v Shiite) etc etc etc.

VG,
But all races in the past have been racist and vile. White, black and arab people took part in the trading of slaves, in fact it had been going on for years before white people arrived in Africa. today you can see white people in Morroco who are the descendent so of white slaves taken from areas in ireland and Cornwall centuries ago, and it is only in the last few years that slavery became criminalized on one african country. Fillopino people do not exactly have great treatment in saudi (I think, but may be , worng that their make up the majority of the beheadings), but that does not mean it is Ok for Filipino people to be racist towards arab people. Trying to claim that racism is Ok so long as it is against whites is never going to wash.
I also think it is really racist, and patronizing to refer to yourself as being priviliged because you are not black.

and here is the definition of racism from the oxford dictionary "the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races "