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Diane Abbott....racist comment or not?

464 replies

festi · 05/01/2012 09:53

I think If you look and consider what she said in the context of the discussuion she was having. I believe she has a very valid point, she did make a generalised remark and by definition that was racist, but, it was in my opinion acceptable for her to generate discussion and break down the barriers that exist (the fear of counter accusations of racism) in discussuing the exposure openly.

OP posts:
garlicfrother · 06/01/2012 12:17

Oh, Celia! The pot & kettle were both black with soot, the saying comes from the days when cooking was done on fires.

It's odd that some people here seem to be taking the discussion to be about whether discrimination against black people exists. No-one has denied that. Likewise, the only people attempting to justify racism are those defending Abbott.

Her comment was racist. The question is: Was it OK for a black woman to make a racist comment? Personally, I don't see how you can claim it is.

It's one thing to say "White people have a terrible history of racial oppression" - that's agreed by everyone of any shade, except my awful neighbour and a few other lunatic dinosaurs.

It's another thing to say "White people still oppress black people" - that's more disputed these days, but NOT by anybody on this very long thread.

Another again to say "White people deliberately oppress black people now" - which is what Abbott said. If she'd said "some" white people, she may have had a point. But that's not what she said.

You'd probably agree with me if I said "Some black people mug white people" - though you might, rightly, ask why I chose to mention their race. Some white people are muggers, too.

It's very fair to say some black people like to divide and rule, also. So, even if she had said "some" white people, it still would have been racist. Just not as racist as implying "all" white people like to do that, as she did.

VictorGollancz · 06/01/2012 12:21

For Diane Abbott to harm racial harmony, one would have to assume that the UK has acheived it...

WhingingNinja · 06/01/2012 12:21

It's not my "personal" definition, it's the definition that comes from the anti-racist and civil rights movements. You know, the people who actually fight white racism and make a difference.

Yes. And I find many of those people just about as racist as anyone I have heard speak.
The opinions expressed by some of those people (many of the more vocal have been mentioned on the thread already) hold quite appalling views in my mind.

mayorquimby · 06/01/2012 12:22

So the people who fight white racisms definition of racism, which precludes anyone but whites from being racist, is now the objective one?
It is the defintion you have chosen to personally accept, and it's one I whole heartedly disagree with. You quite obviously disagree with my personal definition of racism, c'est la vie.

In fact I think the denial of racism on the part of minorities towards white people in fact hurts the progress that England has made towards eradicating such prejudices in soceity. It cultivates an "us v them" mentality in some people on both sides of the racial divide and provides easy ammo for groups such as the EDL or the BNP.

I don't think anyone can deny the context and that a mass swell of white on black racism is going to be far more damaging to the minority group than if the situation was reversed. However simply because one is worse in scale should not preclude people from acknowledging the existence of the other. And it should certainly not exclude individuals acting in an individual capacity from being held to the same standards and definitions for their disgusting and biggotted views like DA.

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/01/2012 12:23

"Yes. And I find many of those people just about as racist as anyone I have heard speak."

Fighting white racism is racist? No it's not.

Thanks for giving me my first head explosion of the day though.

foglike · 06/01/2012 12:24

VictorGollancz you don't think society is heading for harmony between the races?
So it's ok for DA to spout divisive rhetoric in her position of power to undermine the good work people are doing?
Ridiculous!!

garlicfrother · 06/01/2012 12:31

If you charge a meeting with the premise "Black people suffer racism in Britain today", Thunderbolts, you have a strong case. If your premise is "All Whites hate Blacks", then you're both wrong and racist. Prejudice means ... pre-judging a population on the basis of a superficial characteristic; ascribing a certain moral quality to a population on that basis.

kelly2000 · 06/01/2012 12:39

thunder,
No she did not say fighting white racism is racist, she said some people who fight white racism are racist. look at Dianne abbott she fights white racism, but displays racist attitudes. Your on the one hand say you are against racism, whilst on the othe rhand make racist comments claiming that racism depends on the colour of someones skin, and basicly seem to think thta people should be judged on the colour of their skin not their actions. Abbotts claims were racist, the only ones defending her are doing so by judging her on her race not her words. That is racist.

WhingingNinja · 06/01/2012 12:39

Fighting anything that only pertains to someone's colour is racist. So fighting racism = great. Fighting white racism = racist.

And yes I find many of the opinions expressed by people like wadsworth, darcus Howe and DIane Abbott incredibly offensive and indeed racist.

CeliaFate · 06/01/2012 12:40

I appreciate it is a silly comment, but in this context I think it's crass and insensitive, ie it's as if the message is, "how silly to get so het up over nothing."

It is not nothing to be prejudiced against for the colour of your skin (and yes, I'm aware the pot/kettle thing is soot, that's irrelevant to the point I was making) and DA's comment is in no way the same as the historical and institutional racism that black people have suffered. I'm not saying she was right to say what she did, but she does not deserve the mauling she's getting imho.

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/01/2012 12:40

Dear god racism pertains to people's colour. Racism is hatred against those who don't have white skin.

OldMumsy · 06/01/2012 12:41

I think many white people are on the cusp of giving up on this one. Apart from committing mass suicide there is cock all we can do to make these people happy. Maybe everyone would be happier if they went to live in homogeneous societies, their ancentral homelands? Which means I am staying here.

thunderboltsandlightning · 06/01/2012 12:41

The mauling she's getting is down to racism and misogyny too.

foglike · 06/01/2012 12:43

What mauling is she getting Celia?
It's off the front pages already.
The "Colonials" are already protecting her privileged racist backside because she's part of the fabric of the hypocrisy she criticises.

mayorquimby · 06/01/2012 12:44

why, what mysogyny did she follow up her racist tweet with?

mayorquimby · 06/01/2012 12:45

"Racism is hatred against those who don't have white skin."

If the racist is white.
If the racist is black it may very well be the hatred of someone with white skin.

garlicfrother · 06/01/2012 12:45

Racism is hatred against those who don't have white skin.

No, it's hatred against those who have different skin. I've experienced race hate both in England and abroad (I'm white) and you've heard from at least two people on this thread who live with it every day in their countries of residence. How dare you dismiss their experience while promoting your own.

foglike · 06/01/2012 12:45

You are offensive thunderbolts and ignorant in the extreme.
Could you pen a letter to the police advocating John Terrys case please?
He could do with the help right now.

Ponders · 06/01/2012 12:46

misogyny?

most of it on here is coming from women (apparently Grin).

Can women be misogynist? if blacks can't be racist I suppose they can...Hmm

mayorquimby · 06/01/2012 12:48

*hope oldmumsy is trolling.

kelly2000 · 06/01/2012 12:49

Celia,
Diane Abbott made an out and out racist comment about all white people, and did not even loose her job, so she is not doing too badly, and I am fairly certain that if she had been white or asian and made that comment about black people she would be rightly out on her ear. (On the same note, if ken Clarke had made his disgusting comments in the context of race he would be out on his ear, but because he just targeted rape victims he got away with a half hearted apology which he then followed up by saying he was right.)

foglike · 06/01/2012 12:50

Would it be a fair comment to suggest that anyone who supports a racist and their comments is a racist too?

WhingingNinja · 06/01/2012 12:51

No. Racism pertains to thinking that a person of one colour/ethnicity should be treated in a way that is superior/more favourably than that of someone of alternative race/colour/ethnicity.

The fact that they chose to deny that racism against a white person exists is racist.

kelly2000 · 06/01/2012 12:53

thunder,
as she was racist of course the "mauling" is down to racism, but she did nto make any sexist comments so I failt to see how you can accuse her of misogny. And please stop making your racist comments about how whites can never be a victim of racism.

foglike · 06/01/2012 12:54

This is a case of a non white person being punished for racism within football and the charge is valid and he deserved his ban and it should serve as a warning to others for using vile racist language.

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16441461.stm