Diane Abbott....racist comment or not?

[festi]

I think If you look and consider what she said in the context of the discussuion she was having. I believe she has a very valid point, she did make a generalised remark and by definition that was racist, but, it was in my opinion acceptable for her to generate discussion and break down the barriers that exist (the fear of counter accusations of racism) in discussuing the exposure openly.

Victor - so you are not going to suffer in any way because you are White? Hmmm. Let's just assume you are a Finnish nurse in DAs constituency and you need her help with a problem you have with housing or benefits. Feeling confident about the kind of help and intervention you'd get from someone who had explicitly condemned you for the colour of your skin?

And what the fuck has the modern day slave trade got to do with white imperialism and colonialism being alive and well?? Do you actually understand the nature of modern day slavery and who organises and perpetuates it? And what has any of that got to do with an individual's racism? It is still wrong, no matter what horrible injustices your ancestors suffered.

And no one suffered at the hands of my ancestors btw who were all starving to death or in workhouses. So apparently according to your logic this gives me a free pass to say whatever I like about the English upper class, given what my great great grandparents suffered at their hands?

Absolutely barmy. And I am trying to be diplomatic.

what does that mean exactly missingfriendsandsad, would you care to ellaborate?

the whole Blue Labour thing.

Not that Clegg was much better in his response today, for all that I'm a Cleggite Lib Dem.

'I wish she'd opened up the debate'

I don't think she opened the debate, because what she said is indefensible, which is why Miliband stepped in. When you're in a hole, stop digging.

She shouldn't resign, she made a gaffe and the reaction has taught everybody a lesson.

The debate that has really been opened up is about racism towards white people and some people are still sticking their heads in the sand and saying that it doesn't exist. There are many types of racism against many races and they are all unacceptable. That is the debate which has inadvertently been opened up.

but that is not what she was tweeting about claig. As a result of her now buying into the rule and divide the debate has now been muddied and that is unfortunate running on the back of the the conviction, england riots and now the power structure of the white MPs and hard done by whites are now taking president.

I like the graham linham tweets mentioned up thread. seems to put far more perspective on the subject

claig - but the problem is that's it's become increasingly fashionable to suggest that the fact that racist slurs are made against white people somehow cancels out all the racism against black people and other minorities. There is racism against white people.

'I think the problem is, though, that we have this idea that as long as we use the right words, it'll all be fine - and it's not.'

Agree, it's not about words, it's about actions and the underlying mindset. It's not about words and apologies, it's about mindset and beliefs. It's about eradicating a racist mindset and treating people of all colours equally.

It's not enough to use the "right words", but it certainlly is unacceptable to use the wrong words and that is bound to cause offence.

There is more racism against black people than white people, but racism to both occurs and two wrongs don't make a right. Racism should be condemned whenever it occurs. You have to be consistent and fair.

'but that is not what she was tweeting about claig.'

She was tweeting about something else, but her comment opened up an entirely different debate because it caused offence.

Oh I was just feeling a bit silly and also wanted to point out that in saying what she said she was actually doing exactly what she was simultaneously claiming to be against i.e. dividing people into groups and setting themselves each other.

She was using 'don't behave like white people' to encourage a black person to align with her view even though that person was already saying that the idea that there is a 'black view' on an issue is ridiculous. The whole thing was foolish.

Its amusing that some people are saying Diane is a 'black leader' - she is a politician who has done well because she has explained herself well - now she is a politician who has made an arse of herself...

I meant to add "but DA isn't guilty of it in my opinion" - i.e. it wasn't racism and shouldn't be condemned.

But Miliband seems to disagree with you. I think you are out of touch with many people's views on this. At first I thought it was just the type of thing we often hear, but thinking about it more, there is more to it, which is why it has sparked this reaction and criticism.

I'm repeating myself, vesela, but when you make a universal character judgement on "White people", you're expressing bigotry just as much as when your mass judgement falls on "Black people", "Women" or "Gays". There's no way round it.

Being part of a population that suffers more bigotry than some others does not endow permission to be a bigot. It's malicious stereotyping no matter who you are.

I happen to agree with Claig (a rare event) that those from privileged populations have been treated as if immune from negative discrimination, when that is not the case. I'd like to think Abbott's clanger will open debate over this, but I doubt it.

I applaud you, VictorGollancz.

/\no not attacked anyone Frangelina.
i think what Moondog is saying is that it is slightly hypocritical to spend a lot of time slagging off the "white society" the way she does and yet bend over backwards to fit into that exact world./\

Whingingninja, if that's the case then it's a poor point to make with regards to the christening. Which is very insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Abbott has to fit into exactly the same world as the rest of us, in order to get on. Everyone has to make compromises, especially if they live in a society where they're very much in a minority. I think Moondog would have a point if she were talking about the private school, which a lot of people do disagree with, including apparently Abbott herself, and which does a lot more to entrench advantage in society than any christening. (I say this as someone who went to private secondary school myself, albeit on an assisted place from a poor family so in different circumstances to those Diane objects to). But in terms of the christening, no. Diane is a hypocrite because of the private school thing. Not because of a christening.

NYResolutions I have heard similar stories. It must be pretty tough living with that.

My beef with DA is that whilst all well meaning people will be seeking to find ways to live together in harmony like a big happy family in the UK (idealistic I know) others seem to be intent on stirring shit as an attempt to divide and rule themselves.

The hypocrisy of DAs comment regarding white people here is brilliant in that it is what she is doing herself by appealing to her largely black constituents by denigrating the minority white constituents.

The media have pussyfooted round this lardy idiot for long enough, unleash the dogs on her.

Julie Bindel tells us on sky news last night that we as white people should be taking it on the chin because we have been the aggressors and the oppressors for hundreds of years.

This tweet from journalist Gary Younge from The Guardian : "If only the political class' response to Stephen Lawrence's murder had been as swift and forceful as it was to Diane Abbot's tweet." Says it all to me.

Julie Bindel is just revealing the lack of depth and eurocentricity of her history education. What do you expect from a left grauniad hackette? The rest of them are professional black race baiters who make money out of discord.

"This tweet from journalist Gary Younge from The Guardian : "If only the political class' response to Stephen Lawrence's murder had been as swift and forceful as it was to Diane Abbot's tweet." Says it all to me."

How could it have been though? Stephen Lawrence was murdered 18 years ago - different time, different world. The Guardian quote seems a total red herring to me.

DA is an arse; always has been, always will be; but she is a clever arse in that she has manufactured a platform for herself - whether she can stay on it now, who knows?

Boschy there was a 'politicial class' eighteen years ago as well, though! I was only young back then, but I'm sure that even 18 years ago people still used to have opinions on stuff and write about it, and I think the radio and tv had been invented by then, too!