Diane Abbott....racist comment or not?

[festi]

I think If you look and consider what she said in the context of the discussuion she was having. I believe she has a very valid point, she did make a generalised remark and by definition that was racist, but, it was in my opinion acceptable for her to generate discussion and break down the barriers that exist (the fear of counter accusations of racism) in discussuing the exposure openly.

That's the thing Ninja, it will start. You can't talk about wanting racial equality, as she has done in the past, and then say shit about an entire racial group.

If she wanted to say "there is still endemic racism in the UK, and black people need to look at this as one community to fight it" why didn't she say it? Not saying I would agree with that either, but it wouldn't have been a racist thing to say.

MPs seem to forget they're there to represent people, not to spout their own shit on twitter. I honestly think they should just be banned from tweeting and writing and blabbing on about their own opinions.

It's the retaliatory shit that is sadly, expected by this.

She should know better.

Racism is racism, perpetrator being black or white (or anything else), is just WRONG

Anyway, I have work in the morning, but thanks all. I should never get involved in these threads...

It doesn't just hurt people's feelings. It gives incredibly thick BNP wankers fuel for their fire. It proves that Diane Abbott is not really suitable as an MP because she thinks her white constituents are colonialists. It separates us into groups: us and them.

It doesn't hurt my feelings, I honestly couldn't give a flying fuck what Diane Abbott thinks of me. I do care about the wider implications of what she's saying.

Victor just accepting that you can't accept racism in any form, will be a first step for you.

Much, most even, of what you write it true, but you cannot make statments about a huge majority of people that are as offensive as this, and not expect retaliation.

It doesn't change what has happened or make it right, but to make those statements, is also just plain wrong.

How do racist comments affect white people aside from hurting their feelings?

Do you really want to have a discussion about this, as if it's ok to have these opinons if nobody's affronted by it?

Just a little amazed at the idea that in order for a politician to represent you they have to have experienced your lifestyle or think the way you do. In fact what they have to do is listen to your point of view and understand the context of your life.

for example I dont think you have to have a below average IQ to be able to represent people who have below average IQ.

Not that I am in any sense saying that politicians actually do listen or try to understand their constituents lives...clearly they dont.

No one wants anyone spouting any racist views, and Diane Abbott can't go round saying whatever shit she wants but - I just don't think this was very bad.

Problem is she attains that it was in relation to history, yet uses the current tense?

DH says that in the context it is written and the words used, do satisfy the requirements of a racially aggrievated comment for which she could face a criminal investigation. Doubt she will but she should be more apologetic because it has caused discussion and she is in the public domain.

She should be disciplined heavily by her party, but I worry that this won't happen either.

She has had a few gaffs in the past, but so have most politicians.

'how do racist comments affect white people, aside from hurting their feelings? 'Cos I am a white person and I'm not going to suffer in ANY WAY in my life for being white.'

It's not about comments. It's about the mindset that they could represent and whether that would lead to unfair treatment, access to less funding and less opportunities and the creation of an unlevel playing field where laws about racism may be applied to people differently.

If it really was all a storm in a teacup, why did Miliband step in?

Actually scrap what I said, I agree with yellowraincoat.

Because Miliband's tiptoeing around the people who think this was very very racist and it's shocking how oppressed white people are etc.

I'm fed up of tiptoeing around them.

Who the hell has said white people are oppressed vesela? Point me to a relevant link.

Agree Yellow raincoat. That was what i was trying to say up thread. You just said it a lot more succinctly

"them" as in White people?

I bet her constituents feel oppressed right now knowing they had someone representing them in parliament who thinks they are colonial masters of a subdued British black population. It's an insult to British black people and it shows, not may influential black people have come out in support of her have they?

vesela, I don't think that that is why Miliband and Chuka Umanna reacted the way they did. I don't believe that they did it for political gain. I believe that they thought the statements were wrong and they are in tune with a large number of people who also think that.

It's about mindset and being consistent about racism, because doing anything else will undermine anti-racism.

Only just seen this ... honestly, without MN I wouldn't know anything!

I like Abbott. But you simply can't begin a sentence with "White people ... " then claim it isn't racist. Trying to hark back to slave days makes it worse; it's as bad as the unbearable white African I (unfortunately) know, who insists colonialism is evidence that black people like being told what to do.

Silly woman, Diane.

OK, will read the rest of the thread now

im actually very disapointed with the irony of her comment now, she was brass necked enough to say what she did, In my original OP I felt she was very much justified and very neively I was awaiting her responce. However she did just that herself, bowed down to the power and bought into the divide and rule, if she was prepeared to put her neck and values on the line she would have fought and defended her staement so that we could all understand it and open up the debate. seems pretty fruitless now. very much like many of her ill thought out backlashes and personal choices.

Yellowraincoat - I was talking about the people that WhingingNinja was talking about when she said "Sadly it is comments like these made by DA that provoke yet more of it. there will be ELD and BNP supporters sitting around waxing lyrical about how "we" are now the under class in "our own" country. " and I replied that I knew what she meant, but that it felt as if they were being given into more and more. OK, not the out-and-out ELD/BNP supporters (although Labour have lost votes in that direction) but the people who are continually aggrieved about that sort of thing.

Right, I see vesela. I don't think anyone tiptoes round the BNP do they? Mostly people ignore them because they're weird. I mean, Miliband doesn't particularly say anything about them, but then, I can't even remember what he looks like, so.

Victor: Is there even an equivalent? Yes, I have been called "milk", "albino" and "no ass" in a pejorative sense by black people being racist against me. I'm not being all injured about it, just answering your question.

HTH

festi - I wish she'd opened up the debate, too.

claig - I think the problem is, though, that we have this idea that as long as we use the right words, it'll all be fine - and it's not. I don't know that it's even about creating some sort of "mindset."

It's not about creating a mindset, it's about comments that may reflect a mindset that sees white people as a sort of enemy which plays games of divide and rule.

Most people are not offended by the literal statement because they know it is untrue, they know they are not playing games of divide and rule against black people. I think what they find offensive is that Diane seems to have this view of white people.

yellow - see end of post - not actual BNP supporters, but the casually-racist, "I'm not racist but..." ones.